Author Topic: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack  (Read 32833 times)

Offline azslow3

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[AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« on: April 25, 2015, 10:45:01 AM »
Produced in cooperation with Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc.

Preset should work out of the box.

How to use it:
  • Install AZ Controller plug-in first (download the latest released version mentioned in the News section)
  • Configure AlphaTrack MIDI Input/Output in SONAR as described in its documentation. But do not proceed with the original AlphaTrack Sonar plug-in. If it is listed in the Sonar Control Surfaces, please remove it. AlphaTrack should be in native mode. The preset tries to switch to that mode on load.
  • Insert AZ Controller in the "Control Surfaces" section of SONAR preferences and attach AlphaTrack MIDI Input/Output to it
  • Open AZ Controller configuration dialog
  • Switch to the "Options" Tab and in the "Tweak current configuration..." drop box select "AlphaTrack".
  • You can change encoder resolution in coarse and fine modes, I recommend to try default and regenerate the preset in case you do not like it. Also in case you have periodic "disconnects" of Alphatrack, you can regenerate the preset with slower display updates (bigger number in the corresponding combo box). To switch focus or open UI for the changed plug-in in Plug-in Mode Page 1, select corresponding option. You can also change complete Plug-in Page 1 to ACT mode (first 2 encoders are also ACT controls in that case)
  • Press "Create preset"
  • In the preset name box (on top of the window) type "AlphaTrack" and press "Save" button. Select just saved preset to reload it (that should setup WAI and switch native mode)


The has the functionality described in the Origianal documentation for AlphaTrack with Sonar.

Some features from the original documentation which are not going to be implemented or implemented differently:
  • Shift+Stop. Marked as "Local setting (hold buttons)". I could not understand what it is
  • 2 Fingers in Scrub mode also "jogging", not "shuttling". Originally implemented, I have found that impractical since the speed of scrubbing is constant (and equal to the normal play speed)
  • Track/Bus switch is implemented on encoder push. Since there are only 2, I do not see a reason to ask turn the encoder in addition
  • Pan Page 2 (surround parameters). Please request if you need them (I do not use surround features for myself).
  • Plug-in mode has second page which is "ACT Speed Deal" with Encoder 3. If selected at preset generation time, Page 1 and 2 encoders on Page 2 are in ACT mode. The third encoder on page 2 is still "ACT Speed Deal"
  • Only ProChannel EQ is supported (no "EQ Type Select")
  • Reset Pan to center for strip and sends are done by long (>0.5 sec) pressing corresponding encoder. Other parameters do not have default value
  • Pressing middle encoder in Send mode page 2 call "Insert send assistent"

Tip for the preset customization: in the "Option" Tab, "Software States" section you can change the default state which is set on preset load. Select required Set first, select required State, check "Default state" and press "Save". Note, the effect will be after Sonar restart/saved preset reload only. Useful Sets (changing default state for other Sets either have no effect or produce unexpected results):
  • Mode
  • Pan/Trim
  • EQ Band
  • LeftRes./MiddleRes./RightRes. - initial Resolution of corresponding encoder



For those who do not understand what AZ Controller is
What is discussed here is just a preset for AZ Controller plug-in. It is not hack/RE from the original one. I am followed (public) available documentation and I have reproduced (close to) the same result from the original device (which I do not have).
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 10:36:29 PM by azslow3 »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 09:10:25 PM »
.

Offline watercourse

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2015, 12:58:08 AM »
Finally got a chance to give it a try.  Looks like a good start.  The only inconsistency I'm noticing so far is that pressing the 'Pan' button also lights up the 'Auto' button and pressing the 'Auto' button after it's already been lit turns off both the 'Pan' and 'Auto' buttons.

I'm not as familiar with the AlphaTrack (compared to FaderPort) so if there's anything specific you'd like me to test out, just let me know.  The scroll strip does work (pretty cool!) but I'll have to do some more comparisons with the original plugin to see if there are any noticeable differences.

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2015, 12:57:15 PM »
Thank for the first bug. Fixed.

As I have mentioned, everything except encoders and display should work (as described in the original documentation). I am a bit busy now, so I am not advancing fast.

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2015, 12:20:03 AM »
So, I have "coded" the whole stock documentation into the preset. All modes/shift/flips/etc except display (which is not described well in the documentation). Everything is absolutely untested so (no comparable devices in hands, and "emulating" it with what I have is a challenge on its own).   

I hope you understand that there will be no future development till I see some feedback (bug reports, suggestions, etc).

Offline symetrk

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 01:21:50 PM »
Hi...

OK I'm exploring the Alphatrack preset now. It's pretty difficult without the display, but I'm making some progress...

One fairly big problem so far is that the resolution of the knobs is incredibly fine, so much so that it's almost impossible to use them for any adjustments except super fine tweaks. For example, to turn a pan control from center to 50% left or right, I have to give the thing 36 pretty hard turns (meaning, crank it over, let go, turn my wrist back to center, crank it over, let go...)

The original plugin for Alphatrack gets around this by having two different resolutions, coarse and fine, switchable by pushing the knob in, and indicated in the display by an asterisk * on the display, which shows that you're in fine-control mode. So you can make coarse adjustments, then push the knob in to make fine tweaks, and switch back and forth. Fairly handy, and I don't know if it's possible in your plugin (and again, without the display to indicate what's happening it would be of limited use) - but if not, maybe there's a way to increase the knob resolution to work in larger increments?

I like the change to switch between track and bus control by only a click rather than a click and turn. In fact I was in communication with the guy at Frontier about this years ago, when he was tweaking the original plugin, and I suggested it but it never got implemented. So that's cool. But in fact so far on your preset it looks like you have to push three times - one click does nothing, the next switches to bus mode, the third switches back to track mode. I'm a little familiar with how your plugin works now, I'll have a look at how you've implemented this and see if I can suggest an improvement - I was able to get a single-click back-and-forth action working on my Kore MCU implementation with a little fiddling.

One thing that is not working at all here is the Send Level. I can switch to Send mode, and switch between sends with the first knob, and control the send pan with the third knob, so that's all as expected - but the middle knob, which should control the pan level, doesn't seem to do anything at all.

Another issue is the Auto button - this seems, strangely, to be inconsistent - once I was able to get into Auto 'mode', and the light on the controller went on, and seemed to work as expected (based on how it behaves in the original plugin), but now it doesn't work this way, and only switches Write on and off in the selected track, without going into a separate control mode which gives control over Write and Read. Not a showstopper, since for the most part what one wants to do with automation is leave read enabled and switch write on and off, which currently works, but the total control should be possible, and again, it seemed to work at one point but now, not.

I'll get to further exploration and give further feedback as time allows, but for now, one last thing: I seem to be losing control of the AZ plugin window while testing the Alphatrack - it goes away and cannot be called back as normal, from the Utilities menu. I never experienced this with my Kore/MCU testing, where I can assign a button to toggle the plugin control window open and closed. Using the Alphatrack - either the physical controller or the preset, somehow - seems to break this and the only way to get back to it is to restart Sonar.  *EDIT* - On this last point - in fact, the control window was there, just hidden behind the Sonar console window which I generally have maximized on my second monitor. So it was there but invisible and inaccessible until I closed the console window. Maybe I'll put in a toggle switch... or you can...

Ok I'll get to more in a bit... I hope that's helpful and clear for now...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 01:29:07 PM by symetrk »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 02:58:02 PM »
Hi, thank you for detailed report! I know it takes time, and it can be a bit frustrating... But you can imagine my feeling after I have coded the preset (a bit more time then for testing) and have no response  :)

In general, the preset should at the end work exactly as in documentation (with exceptions mentioned in the first post).

For the tests, please redownload the test version.

Hi...

OK I'm exploring the Alphatrack preset now. It's pretty difficult without the display, but I'm making some progress...
But do you see something on display? I mean strip name, buttons functions? I will need precise information what is visible in each particular situation from original plug-in (or generalized way, if applicable) to reproduce that.

Quote
One fairly big problem so far is that the resolution of the knobs is incredibly fine, so much so that it's almost impossible to use them for any adjustments except super fine tweaks. For example, to turn a pan control from center to 50% left or right, I have to give the thing 36 pretty hard turns (meaning, crank it over, let go, turn my wrist back to center, crank it over, let go...)

The original plugin for Alphatrack gets around this by having two different resolutions, coarse and fine, switchable by pushing the knob in, and indicated in the display by an asterisk * on the display, which shows that you're in fine-control mode. So you can make coarse adjustments, then push the knob in to make fine tweaks, and switch back and forth. Fairly handy, and I don't know if it's possible in your plugin (and again, without the display to indicate what's happening it would be of limited use) - but if not, maybe there's a way to increase the knob resolution to work in larger increments?
The idea was that it should work the same way. I have rechecked documentation for mapping, must be something else. Please do the following. Switch to the Overview Tab touch the Right encoder (only Right, will not work with other), check "Last MIDI Event". Do you see "Right encoder touched" there? Check "Last control actions", do you see "Right encoder touched -> Yes".  Remove your finger. Do you see reversed reaction?  Repeat the same with pressing (after pressing do not release finger immediately, since that should trigger "touch release"). Do you see right reaction?

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I like the change to switch between track and bus control by only a click rather than a click and turn. In fact I was in communication with the guy at Frontier about this years ago, when he was tweaking the original plugin, and I suggested it but it never got implemented. So that's cool. But in fact so far on your preset it looks like you have to push three times - one click does nothing, the next switches to bus mode, the third switches back to track mode. I'm a little familiar with how your plugin works now, I'll have a look at how you've implemented this and see if I can suggest an improvement - I was able to get a single-click back-and-forth action working on my Kore MCU implementation with a little fiddling.
Can come from the same bug.

Quote
One thing that is not working at all here is the Send Level. I can switch to Send mode, and switch between sends with the first knob, and control the send pan with the third knob, so that's all as expected - but the middle knob, which should control the pan level, doesn't seem to do anything at all.
My bug. Should be fixed.

Quote
Another issue is the Auto button - this seems, strangely, to be inconsistent - once I was able to get into Auto 'mode', and the light on the controller went on, and seemed to work as expected (based on how it behaves in the original plugin), but now it doesn't work this way, and only switches Write on and off in the selected track, without going into a separate control mode which gives control over Write and Read. Not a showstopper, since for the most part what one wants to do with automation is leave read enabled and switch write on and off, which currently works, but the total control should be possible, and again, it seemed to work at one point but now, not.
Again, still depends on the first problem since Auto use "Touched" states.

Quote
I'll get to further exploration and give further feedback as time allows, but for now, one last thing: I seem to be losing control of the AZ plugin window while testing the Alphatrack - it goes away and cannot be called back as normal, from the Utilities menu. I never experienced this with my Kore/MCU testing, where I can assign a button to toggle the plugin control window open and closed. Using the Alphatrack - either the physical controller or the preset, somehow - seems to break this and the only way to get back to it is to restart Sonar.  *EDIT* - On this last point - in fact, the control window was there, just hidden behind the Sonar console window which I generally have maximized on my second monitor. So it was there but invisible and inaccessible until I closed the console window. Maybe I'll put in a toggle switch... or you can...
Uhh.... that could mean severe bug otherwise!
But that property page is out of my control, it is created by Sonar, it just ask me for the content. But I create "Internal display", it is always on top.

Offline symetrk

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 10:55:20 PM »
Hi Alexey

OK cool. By 'display' I meant the actual physical Alphatrack display, which does not show anything at all from your plugin at the moment, at least here. The AZ display (on the computer screen) works well, and displays the relevant control in every situation I've found, more or less the same as the original does on the device screen - with the exception that the asterisk * showing whether the knob(s) are in coarse or fine adjust mode (more on this below). There are places where this can be improved, and I'll try to be specific about that as I go along, but in general it's a good start and basically working.

I'm not sure if it's possible to send the same information  to the device display but of course that's the ideal scenario. I understood from your notes above that you haven't done that yet; in any case, nothing is showing on the device display at all yet.

On to further bugs.

1. The 'auto' behaviour is still kind of strange. I've sorted out exactly what it does now: It only switches to the 'right' Auto mode (with the light on and the knobs mapped to strip/read/write, indicated in the AZ display) from either Plug-in mode or Send mode. Meaning, it has to be in one of those states in order to switch into Auto mode. Otherwise, if it starts from either Pan mode or EQ mode, then it does not swich into Auto mode but instead toggles the Write on and off (actually it toggles Sonar's 'half-write' mode - I've never been quite sure what that does).

2. Send level now works, but the problem with the knob resolution persists. To be more precise, it starts at a reasonable/usable coarse resolution, but after pressing the knob it changes to very fine resolution (5 clicks of the encoder to change one number) and does not change back.

I went through your diagnostic, and here's what I see:
- on touching the right encoder, in the area at the top I see 'Right Encoder touch ()', and the value toggles from '127' to '0 OFF'
- in the lower area (Last control actions) I see 'Right Encoder touched -> Yes' followed by 'Undefined'. Nothing changes on release.
- on pushing the encoder, up top I see 'Right Encoder pressed ()', and the value toggles from '127' to '0 OFF'
- when taking my finger off, it toggles 'touch' off again as above.
- when pushing the encoder, in the lower area I see 'Right Encoder pressed -> yes'. Nothing changes on release, or on moving my finger away, so the last action remains 'pressed -> yes'.

Does that help?

3. The EQ does not seem to work at all. The AZ display updates correctly, and pressing the EQ button multiple times toggles between the two modes ('Freq Gain Q' and 'Band Filt OnOff') as per the original plugin, which is a nice setup (though I'd prefer it to default to 'Band Filt OnOff' on first press as opposed to the other way around, personally). But there is no actual control over the EQ that I can see. Mind you, the original plugin doesn't work either - it was coded back before the X series when the on-board channel EQ was the Sonitus, so to control the Pro Channel EQ might need different commands. In any case it doesn't seem to be doing anything at all right now.

The only exception seems to be the Filt mode. I can control this, but it takes a lot of turning clockwise to change the mode 'downwards' - from 'Hybrid' down to 'G-mode' - but to change it back up it changes in one mode per click. If it could be like that in both directions, that would be best.

4. The 'Send' mode left encoder, which should change between active sends, does so but it seems, from the information in the Overview window, to be hard-coded to 8 sends - so if you've only got 1 or 2 active, this knob can seem inactive if it's up in the 7 or 8 range, since there's no information in the display (or anywhere except the plugin control window) to indicate which send you're controlling. And of course if this knob is set to an inactive send, then the other knobs in send mode won't do anything either, and so it can seem unresponsive. I'm not sure if there's any way within your plugin to only switch between active sends, but this would seem ideal.

EDITs:
5. OK there's a problem with the motor fader. If you load or reset the preset, it works fine initially, and if you move between tracks with the track buttons, everything is OK. But as soon as you use the left encoder to change tracks, or push it to change to bus controls, then the motorfader stops responding - or at least, again, that's what's happening here. It still functions as a non-motorized fader, but it does not stay in sync with the fader on the screen, and cannot be returned to working control without resetting the preset. It seems to go into a mode where it wants to return to a center position no matter what you do with it.

(One of the nice things in the original plugin is the fact that when changing channels with the encoder, the motor does not engage to move the fader until you let go of the knob, thus avoiding rapid jumps if you're quickly shuttling through channels to get to the right one).

6. Flip functionality only seems to be accessible from Pan mode, from the other modes it does nothing. On the original you can flip pan, send level, EQ or plug-in parameters as well, from their respective pages. The display also indicates the flip by means of an arrow beside the flipped parameter.

7. In the original plugin, when using the mode buttons in a two-page mode such as Send, EQ, or Plug-in, the light on the device above the respective mode button flashes as an extra indication that it is on its second control page. Not necessary but a nice touch...

Finally, the plugin control window is fine, that was just my mistake. But it might be cool if one of the user-selectable buttons could be repurposed to toggle that back and forth. Did you have any other plans for those buttons? In the original plugin control window there's a menu from which you can set these to different functions. In your plugin of course it could be ultra-flexible, if not as easy as just selecting from a drop-down list...

Hope that helps, I'll keep looking for specific problems and keep you posted. Thanks as always for all your work!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 12:05:59 AM by symetrk »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 10:19:18 AM »
I hope we are closer to working configuration now, but still many things to check/fix/implement. Please download the latest test version again.

I'm not sure if it's possible to send the same information  to the device display but of course that's the ideal scenario. I understood from your notes above that you haven't done that yet; in any case, nothing is showing on the device display at all yet.
The intention was to show on both displays the same information (since I can not see real one). But there was a bug, which I hope is fixed now (thanks to you report that you see nothing!).
With '*', we have to discuss later (sure it is possible, as well as any other information).

Quote
1. The 'auto' behaviour is still kind of strange. I've sorted out exactly what it does now: It only switches to the 'right' Auto mode (with the light on and the knobs mapped to strip/read/write, indicated in the AZ display) from either Plug-in mode or Send mode. Meaning, it has to be in one of those states in order to switch into Auto mode. Otherwise, if it starts from either Pan mode or EQ mode, then it does not swich into Auto mode but instead toggles the Write on and off (actually it toggles Sonar's 'half-write' mode - I've never been quite sure what that does).

2. Send level now works, but the problem with the knob resolution persists. To be more precise, it starts at a reasonable/usable coarse resolution, but after pressing the knob it changes to very fine resolution (5 clicks of the encoder to change one number) and does not change back.
The problem with press/touch was still there. I hope it is fixed, see later.

Quote
I went through your diagnostic, and here's what I see:
- on touching the right encoder, in the area at the top I see 'Right Encoder touch ()', and the value toggles from '127' to '0 OFF'
- in the lower area (Last control actions) I see 'Right Encoder touched -> Yes' followed by 'Undefined'. Nothing changes on release.
- on pushing the encoder, up top I see 'Right Encoder pressed ()', and the value toggles from '127' to '0 OFF'
- when taking my finger off, it toggles 'touch' off again as above.
- when pushing the encoder, in the lower area I see 'Right Encoder pressed -> yes'. Nothing changes on release, or on moving my finger away, so the last action remains 'pressed -> yes'.
Does that help?
Sure! That is the information I need. Please redo the test, and if it works correctly many other functions should work as well.

Quote
3. The EQ does not seem to work at all. The AZ display updates correctly, and pressing the EQ button multiple times toggles between the two modes ('Freq Gain Q' and 'Band Filt OnOff') as per the original plugin, which is a nice setup (though I'd prefer it to default to 'Band Filt OnOff' on first press as opposed to the other way around, personally). But there is no actual control over the EQ that I can see. Mind you, the original plugin doesn't work either - it was coded back before the X series when the on-board channel EQ was the Sonitus, so to control the Pro Channel EQ might need different commands. In any case it doesn't seem to be doing anything at all right now.
EQ should work. It can happened that you have to switch it "on" once manually (yet another Sonar bug), but I think the result is saved in project.
There was typo in my preset code, it is fixed now.

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The only exception seems to be the Filt mode. I can control this, but it takes a lot of turning clockwise to change the mode 'downwards' - from 'Hybrid' down to 'G-mode' - but to change it back up it changes in one mode per click. If it could be like that in both directions, that would be best.
With "MIDI" resolution it should be better. But not perfect. Again, SONAR "feature". Frontier call that in documentation "some parameters is better to control with fader". Not that they have not foreseen how that should work, but it looks like they "forgot" it along the road.

Quote
4. The 'Send' mode left encoder, which should change between active sends, does so but it seems, from the information in the Overview window, to be hard-coded to 8 sends - so if you've only got 1 or 2 active, this knob can seem inactive if it's up in the 7 or 8 range, since there's no information in the display (or anywhere except the plugin control window) to indicate which send you're controlling. And of course if this knob is set to an inactive send, then the other knobs in send mode won't do anything either, and so it can seem unresponsive. I'm not sure if there's any way within your plugin to only switch between active sends, but this would seem ideal.
The situation is the following. It is possible for plug-in to detect how many FXes and Parameters are there. But (while possible) that is not easy to code inside AZ Controller... I still think how to improve that.

But once I have coded it for myself, I have found that the result is far from ideal, at least for me. Let say your track 1 has 3 sends and track 2 has 1 send. You are on track 1 and selected send 3 to adjust let say reverb send. For whatever reason, you have temporarily switched to track 2 and have adjusted its volume (or to mute it). You are back on Track one, continue adjusting reverb but... you are adjusting something else: when you was on track 2, there was no send 3. So, current "send" is down to "1".

Saving the setting per strip is again not ideal in case you have several tracks with the same set of sends.

And so, I feel myself "safer" in case once switched to Send 4, it stay Send 4. Independent either current strip has it or not. But in case that is a show stopper for you, I can try to implement alternative solution.

Quote
5. OK there's a problem with the motor fader. If you load or reset the preset, it works fine initially, and if you move between tracks with the track buttons, everything is OK. But as soon as you use the left encoder to change tracks, or push it to change to bus controls, then the motorfader stops responding - or at least, again, that's what's happening here. It still functions as a non-motorized fader, but it does not stay in sync with the fader on the screen, and cannot be returned to working control without resetting the preset. It seems to go into a mode where it wants to return to a center position no matter what you do with it.

(One of the nice things in the original plugin is the fact that when changing channels with the encoder, the motor does not engage to move the fader until you let go of the knob, thus avoiding rapid jumps if you're quickly shuttling through channels to get to the right one).
Please recheck now. I also switch off motor when changing strip by encoder. But whole "touch/push" was broken (MIDI mapping), so fader had no chance to work correctly.

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6. Flip functionality only seems to be accessible from Pan mode, from the other modes it does nothing. On the original you can flip pan, send level, EQ or plug-in parameters as well, from their respective pages. The display also indicates the flip by means of an arrow beside the flipped parameter.
Flip is coded the same way as in the original plug-in. Display we will also fix, once the rest is working.

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7. In the original plugin, when using the mode buttons in a two-page mode such as Send, EQ, or Plug-in, the light on the device above the respective mode button flashes as an extra indication that it is on its second control page. Not necessary but a nice touch...
Possible to implement but not there yet. Once we are at "display" point, I will code that as well. Which frequency of flashing you prefer?

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Finally, the plugin control window is fine, that was just my mistake. But it might be cool if one of the user-selectable buttons could be repurposed to toggle that back and forth. Did you have any other plans for those buttons? In the original plugin control window there's a menu from which you can set these to different functions. In your plugin of course it could be ultra-flexible, if not as easy as just selecting from a drop-down list...
All controls in AZ Controller are "User defined" controls. And in fact it is as easy as selecting from a drop-down list(s... I mean several) !
Switch to "F1" Logical Control in Logic Tab. Default "Save/Recall" in the original plug is also coded there. Let say you want "Commands":
* Click on "Call ((None))_gf..." action (the second one), click "Delete"
* Click on "Recall parameter..." action (the first one), change type from "Save/Recall" to "Command".
You have "Drop down list" of commands you see in the original plug-in (with exception of "some", they do not specify the whole list in docs, special Alphatrack commands). Do the same for "Shift:+" actions to change behavior when shift is active. 
But since it is "Ultra" you can add for example "Mode: xxx" conditions to make Function Keys reaction mode dependent.

As with everything else in AZ Controller, in case you want something "simple", it is simple. In case you want something more complex, it is more complex. And in case you want something "smart" (like Alphatrack preset as a whole), the configuration is also "smart"  ;)

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Hope that helps, I'll keep looking for specific problems and keep you posted. Thanks as always for all your work!
Thanks for testing! Several more iterations and it should work good. I can start implement "extra wishes" then.

Offline symetrk

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 01:32:04 AM »
Hi again Alexey, I was out all day but I'm home now and just had a look around the new version. Man you're quick, and amazingly dedicated to getting these things right, especially for someone working essentially for free. A lot of people would love to have this kind of turnaround from a company they're giving lots of money to! I will definitely drop something in your paypal next time my own tops up, and I'd also love to send you some music, I'll PM you about that.

I hope we are close to working configuration now, but still many things to check/fix/implement. Please download the latest test version again.
We certainly are! It's pretty much as good as the original now, maybe a bit better - some things still to fix for sure and not quite there but other things already better - see details below!

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The intention was to show on both displays the same information (since I can not see real one). But there was a bug, which I hope is fixed now (thanks to you report that you see nothing!).
With '*', we have to discuss later (sure it is possible, as well as any other information).
It works now, the AZ display is mirrored on the device display, so no need to make that distinction anymore. Yes, we can talk about possible refinements once everything is in place. I have some ideas...

One thing that the original plugin does well is to display contextual information about what the controls will do - for example, in Plug-in mode, when you change the parameter to be controlled it tells you what the current parameter is, as best it can. When changing a parameter knob, it tells you the current value. Sometimes when you are touching an encoder, it will use the whole display to give information about the parameter and sometimes even a simple slider to show the value. On encoder release, it reverts to the default display for the current mode.

None of this is essential, and of course nobody should expect you to replicate it precisely (for no money! on a discontinued device!). But it's a thought - simple visual feedback from the device screen is a bit more direct than twisting a knob while looking up at the computer screen. Of course, it might also be distracting - maybe it's better to just have the display help you grab the right knob, know what it will do, and then use our ears...  8)

On the plus side, Auto mode now works as expected, you can switch to it from any other mode, no irregularities.

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The problem with press/touch was still there. I hope it is fixed, see later... Please redo the test, and if it works correctly many other functions should work as well.

The test now checks out, all working and the results on the overview page are as expected - touch and release, press and release all showing what they should in both areas of the Overview page.

With regards to the triple-push on switching from track to bus mode: I have narrowed this down and noticed an odd thing: If the AZ plugin control window is open, and *selected*, it behaves as it should - switching back and forth with a single push. It also works if another program is open, like for example this browser window, and Sonar is running in the background (I can see from my console on a 2nd monitor). If the plugin window is not open at all, it still needs the triple push - two pushes to change from track to bus, one from bus to track.

Obviously this is not a big problem as most of the time there would be no reason to work with the plugin window open, but I thought it might be useful to help you track down whatever is causing it to take more presses than necessary.

Also, and a bit more of a problem, is that if the Console is selected - whether in the Multidock or its own window - the track/bus encoder push does not work at all.

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EQ should work. It can happened that you have to switch it "on" once manually (yet another Sonar bug), but I think the result is saved in project.
There was typo in my preset code, it is fixed now.

EQ now working fine, everything is in place to control the four main bands from the Alphatrack. The problem with the knob resolution with regards to the Filter Mode (Hybrid/Pure etc) is still there - takes many turns to change 'downward', in opposite direction it is very fast. Not a showstopper but strange to be sure.

It might be better to control with the fader, but with flip functionality still not working in modes other than Pan (see below), it's not an option here yet. We *could* think about assigning one of the Function buttons to this.

It would also be great, eventually, in the name of completeness, to get control of the low- and high-shelving EQs, as well as Gloss and the shelf/bell switches on the low and high bands. It occurs to me that the low/high shelving ones could just be added as two more bands to control from the band select knob; and the rest could be done with a third 'page' on the EQ mode button - with knobs assigned to Gloss, low-band-mode and high-band-mode respectively. OR they could be assigned to buttons if they can be set up to be mode-dependent as you suggest.

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4. The 'Send' mode left encoder, which should change between active sends, does so but it seems, from the information in the Overview window, to be hard-coded to 8 sends
The situation is the following. It is possible for plug-in to detect how many FXes and Parameters are there. But (while possible) that is not easy to code inside AZ Controller... I still think how to improve that.

But once I have coded it for myself, I have found that the result is far from ideal, at least for me. Let say your track 1 has 3 sends and track 2 has 1 send. You are on track 1 and selected send 3 to adjust let say reverb send. For whatever reason, you have temporarily switched to track 2 and have adjusted its volume (or to mute it). You are back on Track one, continue adjusting reverb but... you are adjusting something else: when you was on track 2, there was no send 3. So, current "send" is down to "1".

Hmm. Here's what I think would be the ideal situation: in the display, on line 2, where at the moment it says "Send Level Pan", you could have it say "Send:1 Lvl  Pan", or "Send:2 Lvl Pan" depending on where it's set. Then there's visual feedback and there's no confusion about which send you're affecting.

It's certainly not a showstopper, I'm just trying to help think of how it could be optimized, since you seem - like me - interested in finding the 'elegant' solution to these things... but are also - unlike me - actually able to code...  :o

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5. OK there's a problem with the motor fader...
Please recheck now. I also switch off motor when changing strip by encoder. But whole "touch/push" was broken (MIDI mapping), so fader had no chance to work correctly.
Works now, with one exception: If you use the encoder to change tracks it delays engaging the fader, as in the original plugin, but unfortunately it does not then engage it again, until you change to a different track with either the buttons or the mouse. It also doesn't engage if you use the mouse to select the track or bus it's already on - you have to change it.

The same happens when you push the encoder to change to Bus control mode or vice versa. It does not re-engage the motor unless you then change the track (or bus) with the buttons or the mouse. Possibly related to the odd behaviour on the encoder push above?

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6. Flip functionality only seems to be accessible from Pan mode, from the other modes it does nothing. On the original you can flip pan, send level, EQ or plug-in parameters as well, from their respective pages. The display also indicates the flip by means of an arrow beside the flipped parameter.
Flip is coded the same way as in the original plug-in. Display we will also fix, once the rest is working.

OK but it doesn't work yet, which it does in the original plugin. It's unchanged from the previous version - works from Pan mode, and engages the motor now, which is great, but does not work in other modes, which it does in the original (let's call it the Frontier plugin, for clarity).

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... flashing lights...
Possible to implement but not there yet. Once we are at "display" point, I will code that as well. Which frequency of flashing you prefer?

No problem and obviously no hurry! Off the top of my head, I guess around 2-3 flashes a second would be fine. Fast enough that you can tell at a glance, not so fast that it's annoying or distracting... The original appears to be one flash per second, which I find a bit slow to see right away.

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All controls in AZ Controller are "User defined" controls. And in fact it is as easy as selecting from a drop-down list(s... I mean several) !
Switch to "F1" Logical Control in Logic Tab. Default "Save/Recall" in the original plug is also coded there. Let say you want "Commands":
* Click on "Call ((None))_gf..." action (the second one), click "Delete"
* Click on "Recall parameter..." action (the first one), change type from "Save/Recall" to "Command".
You have "Drop down list" of commands you see in the original plug-in (with exception of "some", they do not specify the whole list in docs, special Alphatrack commands). Do the same for "Shift:+" actions to change behavior when shift is active. 
But since it is "Ultra" you can add for example "Mode: xxx" conditions to make Function Keys reaction mode dependent.

As with everything else in AZ Controller, in case you want something "simple", it is simple. In case you want something more complex, it is more complex. And in case you want something "smart" (like Alphatrack preset as a whole), the configuration is also "smart"  ;)
It's true. It's a bit more complicated, but that's a small price to pay for a whole lot more flexibility and possibilities. So I'm certainly up for a small learning curve in order to get serious configurability. Mode-specific function keys would be great! But, even harder to remember...

I realize I haven't given you any feedback about the slider yet. It works pretty well! It could be faster to slide on the basic one-finger mode, it's a bit too slow at present. On two-finger mode - which engages FF and RW - it's a bit different than with the Frontier plugin - there it stops as soon as you take your finger off the strip, whereas with yours it continues until you either double-tap the strip - a single tap won't do it - or press the corresponding FF or RW transport button - the opposite one doesn't work. Play or Stop also don't do anything - it feels a bit stuck and it took me a while to figure it out. Now that I know, it's OK, but it would probably better if it could be made to either stop on finger-release or stop with any transport action. 

Also, on the Frontier plugin you can tap the left and right ends of the strip to move to the previous/next marker (and to the start and/or end of the project if at the first/last marker). On your plugin only the left tap for previous marker is working, tapping the right end of the strip does nothing. Again, a very minor point, but I noticed it...

That's it for now!  ???

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Thanks for testing! Several more iterations and it should work good. I can start implement "extra wishes" then.
No problem happy to help and again, I'm kind of amazed at your dedication and willingness to take this to the level you have. Chapeau!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 02:04:05 AM by symetrk »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 02:38:22 PM »
It works now, the AZ display is mirrored on the device display, so no need to make that distinction anymore. Yes, we can talk about possible refinements once everything is in place. I have some ideas...
Lets speak about that later. We will have to "fill the table" of possible indications, which is rather big:
* default display in each mode
* display when some modifier is pressed (shift, flip, auto, etc)
* display when some control is touched (fader, encoder, strip)
* and so on

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The test now checks out, all working and the results on the overview page are as expected - touch and release, press and release all showing what they should in both areas of the Overview page.
Great.

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With regards to the triple-push on switching from track to bus mode: I have narrowed this down and noticed an odd thing: If the AZ plugin control window is open, and *selected*, it behaves as it should - switching back and forth with a single push. It also works if another program is open, like for example this browser window, and Sonar is running in the background (I can see from my console on a 2nd monitor). If the plugin window is not open at all, it still needs the triple push - two pushes to change from track to bus, one from bus to track.

Obviously this is not a big problem as most of the time there would be no reason to work with the plugin window open, but I thought it might be useful to help you track down whatever is causing it to take more presses than necessary.

Also, and a bit more of a problem, is that if the Console is selected - whether in the Multidock or its own window - the track/bus encoder push does not work at all.
I will try to investigate that later with real surface. Normally I am testing using "software" surface, and so the focus is always away from Sonar.

In general, Sonar has several bugs there, not only affecting surfaces. Some are reported on OF (like "not possible select track in closed folder in PRV when console is closed"). There is some chance they fix that later, but I will see what I can do.

In our case, it has something to do with focus/switch "duality". I try to switch focus when we switch track/bus, but I also monitor current focus (to follow mouse changes). For some Sonar internal reasons  (bugs) that focus changing is not working, next monitoring detects the focus is still original and revert plug-in strip type. The result is "Switch to bus (left encoder pushed)"->"Bus"->"Track selected by mouse"->"Track". So, I have to found how to distinguish "Asked focus to be on bus, but that is not working" and "Asked focus to be on bus, but user has changed it back by mouse".

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EQ now working fine, everything is in place to control the four main bands from the Alphatrack. The problem with the knob resolution with regards to the Filter Mode (Hybrid/Pure etc) is still there - takes many turns to change 'downward', in opposite direction it is very fast. Not a showstopper but strange to be sure.
I will think about it... What is going on there: Sonar accept only value changes between 0. and 1. Endless encoder change the value by "small" amount (1/127 in MIDI mode). The reaction from parameter is plug-in (VST, ProChannel, I mean not my plug-in) dependent. So, let say there are only 4 "real" values for 4 filer modes (0, 0.33, 0.66, 1.), I have not checked the real values for EQ, but must be something like that. Let say current value is reported as "0.33" and we use encoder. We try to set "0.34" or "0.32". What happens is EQ implementation dependent, from your observations it looks like EQ switch to "0.66" once it see "0.34", but does NOTHING (keep "0.33") when it see "0.32". In the first case you see immediate change, in the second you need many ticks (0.32, 0.31, 0.30, ... 0.03, 0.02, 0.01, 0.00) till it is "convinced" to switch the type.

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It would also be great, eventually, in the name of completeness, to get control of the low- and high-shelving EQs, as well as Gloss and the shelf/bell switches on the low and high bands. It occurs to me that the low/high shelving ones could just be added as two more bands to control from the band select knob; and the rest could be done with a third 'page' on the EQ mode button - with knobs assigned to Gloss, low-band-mode and high-band-mode respectively. OR they could be assigned to buttons if they can be set up to be mode-dependent as you suggest.
Lets put it into TODO list after Display, it make sense to show current selected band fist, especially once we have many of them.

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Hmm. Here's what I think would be the ideal situation: in the display, on line 2, where at the moment it says "Send Level Pan", you could have it say "Send:1 Lvl  Pan", or "Send:2 Lvl Pan" depending on where it's set. Then there's visual feedback and there's no confusion about which send you're affecting.

It's certainly not a showstopper, I'm just trying to help think of how it could be optimized, since you seem - like me - interested in finding the 'elegant' solution to these things... but are also - unlike me - actually able to code...  :o
Your ideas are welcome. But again, the proposed way is display dependent and so it is behind the display in TODO.

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Works now, with one exception: If you use the encoder to change tracks it delays engaging the fader, as in the original plugin, but unfortunately it does not then engage it again, until you change to a different track with either the buttons or the mouse. It also doesn't engage if you use the mouse to select the track or bus it's already on - you have to change it.

The same happens when you push the encoder to change to Bus control mode or vice versa. It does not re-engage the motor unless you then change the track (or bus) with the buttons or the mouse. Possibly related to the odd behaviour on the encoder push above?
That should work now.

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6. Flip functionality only seems to be accessible from Pan mode, from the other modes it does nothing. On the original you can flip pan, send level, EQ or plug-in parameters as well, from their respective pages. The display also indicates the flip by means of an arrow beside the flipped parameter.

...

OK but it doesn't work yet, which it does in the original plugin. It's unchanged from the previous version - works from Pan mode, and engages the motor now, which is great, but does not work in other modes, which it does in the original (let's call it the Frontier plugin, for clarity).
Flipping can work only for specific Mode/Page/Encoder combinations (when controlled parameter is "continuous").

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... flashing lights...
Possible to implement but not there yet. Once we are at "display" point, I will code that as well. Which frequency of flashing you prefer?

No problem and obviously no hurry! Off the top of my head, I guess around 2-3 flashes a second would be fine. Fast enough that you can tell at a glance, not so fast that it's annoying or distracting... The original appears to be one flash per second, which I find a bit slow to see right away.
Noted. But remember me later in case I forget.

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I realize I haven't given you any feedback about the slider yet. It works pretty well! It could be faster to slide on the basic one-finger mode, it's a bit too slow at present.
Changed from Beat to Measure. You can try to find yourself the best resolution, in the "Strip" Logic control, select "Jog Ribbon" action and change the parameters for it. The effect is immediate.

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On two-finger mode - which engages FF and RW - it's a bit different than with the Frontier plugin - there it stops as soon as you take your finger off the strip, whereas with yours it continues until you either double-tap the strip - a single tap won't do it - or press the corresponding FF or RW transport button - the opposite one doesn't work. Play or Stop also don't do anything - it feels a bit stuck and it took me a while to figure it out. Now that I know, it's OK, but it would probably better if it could be made to either stop on finger-release or stop with any transport action. 
That should be fixed now.

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Also, on the Frontier plugin you can tap the left and right ends of the strip to move to the previous/next marker (and to the start and/or end of the project if at the first/last marker). On your plugin only the left tap for previous marker is working, tapping the right end of the strip does nothing. Again, a very minor point, but I noticed it...
I hope that is also fixed. If not, press that part of the strip and look at "Last MIDI Event". You should see "CH:10 PB " and then Value. Please write which value it was.

Offline symetrk

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 04:32:14 PM »
hi again...

...display refinements...
Lets speak about that later. We will have to "fill the table" of possible indications, which is rather big...
Indeed. And quite possibly if I dig into what you've done here a bit more I can take over some of this, or at least make my own tweaks and offer them as completed versions of the preset for your consideration, rather than asking you to fix things.

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In general, Sonar has several bugs there, not only affecting surfaces. Some are reported on OF (like "not possible select track in closed folder in PRV when console is closed"). There is some chance they fix that later, but I will see what I can do.

In our case, it has something to do with focus/switch "duality". I try to switch focus when we switch track/bus, but I also monitor current focus (to follow mouse changes). For some Sonar internal reasons  (bugs) that focus changing is not working, next monitoring detects the focus is still original and revert plug-in strip type. The result is "Switch to bus (left encoder pushed)"->"Bus"->"Track selected by mouse"->"Track". So, I have to found how to distinguish "Asked focus to be on bus, but that is not working" and "Asked focus to be on bus, but user has changed it back by mouse".
I can understand how this gets convoluted. It's really not a big deal for the moment - as long as I remember to change the focus back to the track window after doing anything in the console, it is just one extra click - two to get to bus control, one to get back to tracks - hardly worth bending over backwards to sort out complex technical questions over, but perhaps this is part of a deeper issue with the plugin's interaction with Sonar. If so, hopefully it's helpful to have another set of eyes on it, but I'm certainly not demanding you fix this on my account!  ::)

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... EQ 'filter mode' switching...
I will think about it... What is going on there: Sonar accept only value changes between 0. and 1. Endless encoder change the value by "small" amount (1/127 in MIDI mode). The reaction from parameter is plug-in (VST, ProChannel, I mean not my plug-in) dependent. So, let say there are only 4 "real" values for 4 filer modes (0, 0.33, 0.66, 1.), I have not checked the real values for EQ, but must be something like that. Let say current value is reported as "0.33" and we use encoder. We try to set "0.34" or "0.32". What happens is EQ implementation dependent, from your observations it looks like EQ switch to "0.66" once it see "0.34", but does NOTHING (keep "0.33") when it see "0.32". In the first case you see immediate change, in the second you need many ticks (0.32, 0.31, 0.30, ... 0.03, 0.02, 0.01, 0.00) till it is "convinced" to switch the type.
Got it. Maybe the button approach would be simpler? I'll have a look at it...

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... more EQ control...
Lets put it into TODO list after Display, it make sense to show current selected band fist, especially once we have many of them.
Cool. Certainly should not be anyone's highest priority at this point.

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Your ideas are welcome. But again, the proposed way is display dependent and so it is behind the display in TODO.
OK. But I'm not clear - what basic functionality is missing in Display at this point? it seems to work pretty well! Is there something fundamental that needs to be sorted out before more dynamic updates can be sent to it?

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... motor fader wasn't re-engaging when using encoder to change tracks or from track-bus / vice versa...
That should work now.
It does indeed! Very nice. It now works exactly as per the Frontier plugin

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6. Flip functionality only seems to be accessible from Pan mode, from the other modes it does nothing....
Flipping can work only for specific Mode/Page/Encoder combinations (when controlled parameter is "continuous").
Hmm. Again, on the Frontier plugin, if you're in Send mode, you can hit Flip and it will flip the Level control to the fader, and tell you that it's done so in the display with a little arrow, and light the Flip light. If you're in EQ mode it flips the Frequency, and in Plug-in mode it flips the currently selected parameter value. These are fixed, but they work.

I was able to replicate this in your plugin - on the Flip button's 'Logic' tab I copied the entry:
'Mode:Pan' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E3
And made 3 more:
'Mode:Send' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E2
'Mode:EQ' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E1
'Mode:PlugIn' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E3

... this makes it work more or less exactly like the Frontier plugin. The Fader motor works too. Easy! See, the plugin works, even for people like me who barely know what they're doing!  ???

Doubtless this can be improved, especially if we can get it to send something to the display to indicate what is being flipped to the fader, but it's a start, and it works!

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... flashing lights...
Noted. But remember me later in case I forget.
OK. Again, very low-priority. Big rocks first, but we're getting through those!


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... touch strip resolution...
Changed from Beat to Measure. You can try to find yourself the best resolution, in the "Strip" Logic control, select "Jog Ribbon" action and change the parameters for it. The effect is immediate.
OK. Measure seems to be better for now.

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...  touch strip two-finger FF/RW behaviour
That should be fixed now.
... and it is. Works just like the Frontier plugin now.


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... touch-strip marker navigation
I hope that is also fixed. If not, press that part of the strip and look at "Last MIDI Event". You should see "CH:10 PB " and then Value. Please write which value it was.
It's working perfectly now!

EDIT!!!

I think I forgot to mention last night. The change from coarse to fine resolution on the encoders is not working at all now. It's a decent, usable resolution for most purposes - kind of medium - but pushing on the encoders does nothing at all now, so no fine-resolution control is currently possible. Hope that helps!

EDIT 2

I notice now that if I go back and do your diagnostic test about the right encoder, nothing is showing at all in the Overview page for either touch or press. It was working when I reported it as fixed, now it does nothing... Hmmm. This is in your unaltered preset; the tweaks I made to the Flip button do not seem to affect it...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 04:48:53 PM by symetrk »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 06:32:05 PM »
...display refinements...
Lets speak about that later. We will have to "fill the table" of possible indications, which is rather big...
Indeed. And quite possibly if I dig into what you've done here a bit more I can take over some of this, or at least make my own tweaks and offer them as completed versions of the preset for your consideration, rather than asking you to fix things.
I think it is simpler in case I make at least first changes to the display. With my "native" knowledge about the plug-in, my first (and the only) complex display implementation (for MCU) is a complete mess. I have made several adjustments in Actions to make the task more transparent (Text Buffers, functions and monitor priorities) but there is no example how to use that all together. I am sure you can configure it on your own, but let me do this.

For the beginning, just write me what exactly you see when let say you have just touched the Right encoder in Pan mode. Does it changes in case you start turn it?

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Your ideas are welcome. But again, the proposed way is display dependent and so it is behind the display in TODO.
OK. But I'm not clear - what basic functionality is missing in Display at this point? it seems to work pretty well! Is there something fundamental that needs to be sorted out before more dynamic updates can be sent to it?
It looks like we are ready for display now. When I was talking "after" or "later", the meaning was not "next year", just 1-2-3 tests more  ;)

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6. Flip functionality only seems to be accessible from Pan mode, from the other modes it does nothing....
Flipping can work only for specific Mode/Page/Encoder combinations (when controlled parameter is "continuous").
Hmm. Again, on the Frontier plugin, if you're in Send mode, you can hit Flip and it will flip the Level control to the fader, and tell you that it's done so in the display with a little arrow, and light the Flip light. If you're in EQ mode it flips the Frequency, and in Plug-in mode it flips the currently selected parameter value. These are fixed, but they work.

I was able to replicate this in your plugin - on the Flip button's 'Logic' tab I copied the entry:
'Mode:Pan' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E3
And made 3 more:
'Mode:Send' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E2
'Mode:EQ' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E1
'Mode:PlugIn' 'Flip:-' 'FlipEncoder:No' 'Note:Off' -'FlipEncoder -> E3

... this makes it work more or less exactly like the Frontier plugin. The Fader motor works too. Easy! See, the plugin works, even for people like me who barely know what they're doing!  ???

Doubtless this can be improved, especially if we can get it to send something to the display to indicate what is being flipped to the fader, but it's a start, and it works!
I put your changes (with small modification) into the preset. And now I understand that I forgot to put that "default" flipping.

It is possible (as described in the documentation) to select which encoder should be flipped (Send 2/3, EQ 1/2/3) by touching encoder while Flip button is pressed. That functionality was there.


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EDIT!!!

I think I forgot to mention last night. The change from coarse to fine resolution on the encoders is not working at all now. It's a decent, usable resolution for most purposes - kind of medium - but pushing on the encoders does nothing at all now, so no fine-resolution control is currently possible. Hope that helps!
We have to fix that. Open Overview Tab.  Select "Right Encoder Pressed" (should be No). Now press right encoder, do you see the state is changed to "Yes"? Fine resolution works when you use pressed encoder, so when the value is "Yes" and you turn the encoder .


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EDIT 2

I notice now that if I go back and do your diagnostic test about the right encoder, nothing is showing at all in the Overview page for either touch or press. It was working when I reported it as fixed, now it does nothing... Hmmm. This is in your unaltered preset; the tweaks I made to the Flip button do not seem to affect it...
Yes. I have reverted these controls to "SYSTEM" (to avoid too many "Last MIDI Event"s when you Touch+Push+Turn).

Offline symetrk

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 11:11:41 PM »
I am sure you can configure it on your own, but let me do this...
Happily! I am not so sure I could get it done in fact, the display stuff seems pretty complex and I'm just a jazz musician...  8)

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For the beginning, just write me what exactly you see when let say you have just touched the Right encoder in Pan mode. Does it changes in case you start turn it?
The device display does not change. The AZ Display (if I have it open, which I generally don't since it's a duplicate of the device display at this point) does not change. The plugin window, if I have it open,  does not change if I touch the encoder, but does change if I turn it - it shows this:
Endless MIDI, manual touch -> 0.65 (or whatever number, between 0 and 1. This corresponds to Pan values between 100%L and 100%R.

It's pretty much the same in any mode. The device display currently works well as a 'static' indication of what controls do, but does not give any dynamic information about what's being done - parameter values, plugin names or parameter names, and so on.

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It looks like we are ready for display now. When I was talking "after" or "later", the meaning was not "next year", just 1-2-3 tests more  ;)
OK. I'm ready to test whatever you throw at me, and will try not to clog the process with too many 'feature requests'... but I can tell you what the original plugin does well, if that's helpful...

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I put your changes (with small modification) into the preset. And now I understand that I forgot to put that "default" flipping.

It is possible (as described in the documentation) to select which encoder should be flipped (Send 2/3, EQ 1/2/3) by touching encoder while Flip button is pressed. That functionality was there.
It is there and it all works now. It took me a while to figure out how to get it to work, but once I got my head around it, it seems stable. Sorry if I missed that before, it was not clear to me but that might be because I never used that functionality much in the original plugin. Now it works from every mode (except Auto, where it doesn't make sense) and it can be configured from one control to another on the fly. Nice!

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... change from coarse to fine resolution on the encoders is not working at all now...
We have to fix that. Open Overview Tab.  Select "Right Encoder Pressed" (should be No). Now press right encoder, do you see the state is changed to "Yes"? Fine resolution works when you use pressed encoder, so when the value is "Yes" and you turn the encoder .
AHA! Yes, that works. It displays Right Encoder pressed (Yes) when pressed, and the fine resolution works.

I didn't notice it because this behaviour is different than in the Frontier plugin where the press is a toggle between coarse and fine resolution. Meaning, default behaviour is coarse, press toggles to fine resolution (and indicates in the display with a *) which persists until another press, which toggles back to coarse resolution.

I think that would be better, if it's possible, but for the moment the way you have it set is also acceptable. But it's slightly uncomfortable to hold it down and turn the encoder while holding it down. Press-to-toggle behaviour is a bit more easier to manage.

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... diagnostic test...
Yes. I have reverted these controls to "SYSTEM" (to avoid too many "Last MIDI Event"s when you Touch+Push+Turn).

Got it. So that's not necessary now that we've got it working as expected.

So where are we at?

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Symetrk, Gswitz and Frankjcc] Frontier AlphaTrack
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2015, 11:22:57 PM »
I am sure you can configure it on your own, but let me do this...
Happily! I am not so sure I could get it done in fact, the display stuff seems pretty complex and I'm just a jazz musician...  8)

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For the beginning, just write me what exactly you see when let say you have just touched the Right encoder in Pan mode. Does it changes in case you start turn it?
The device display does not change.
The question was what Alphatrack display show when used with the original plug-in in that situation. So, what should I display...

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I didn't notice it because this behaviour is different than in the Frontier plugin where the press is a toggle between coarse and fine resolution. Meaning, default behaviour is coarse, press toggles to fine resolution (and indicates in the display with a *) which persists until another press, which toggles back to coarse resolution.

I think that would be better, if it's possible, but for the moment the way you have it set is also acceptable. But it's slightly uncomfortable to hold it down and turn the encoder while holding it down. Press-to-toggle behaviour is a bit more easier to manage.
I have misunderstood the documentation then, I will change that.

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So where are we at?
... display definition. I need the in formation from you what I should define  :)