BCA Remote Control and AZC

[Astraios]

Wow! Cool, man.
Maybe I'll actually be able to pull this off...

Why does my BSP have 3 different relative modes?

It's too late for the 'deep dive' tonight—I'm just too tired—but I'll get right to work on it first thing tomorrow morning. Thanks! 

[azslow3]

Why does my BSP have 3 different relative modes?

There is no standards on "Relative mode" (unlike "normal", which produce values 0-127 when turning clockwise).

And not all software is as flexible as AZ Controller, which can support whatever hardware producer has decided to output...

So BSP support 3 different pairs of values (from Internet, they don't support "Acceleration", but if you see different values when turning in the same direction with different speeds, they do), which they think cover different software.

I will tip that default in AZ Controller settings should work with "Mode 1" (if my and Arturia imagination what values are used as most are the same...). If not working out of the box, try other. Do not check "Accelerated" in AZ Controller, till you see the device really output it.

[Astraios]

  I need a week-long break now, until all the information in my brain has had a chance to sort itself out. Unfortunately, it's incredibly complicated, and I haven't been able to achieve any significant success. Perhaps I'll have better luck next week.

https://youtu.be/UUYhk4NRZ9g

Global Link in FL Studio is so much more easier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=463ErxZXMfc

[azslow3]

Let try to analyse your video...
1) you turn some knob in both directions (CC:32, values 63 and 65). The Knob is NOT assigned in AZ Controller, otherwise AZ Controller will switch to the corresponding control (at least it will show in in the "Last MIDI Event". Also note incoming MIDI on your tracks - not assigned MIDI is delivered to tracks.

I am not sure that values 63 and 65 will work correctly with default "Value" "Encoder" settings, but you will never know till you assign it...

2) you press and release some button (CC:11, values 127 and 0). And it in fact WORKS. To see the result, you could change to the "Overview" tab, the Z3TAInstance state will change every time you press it.
Note the message is NOT leaking to MIDI tracks (AZ Controller blocks assigned messages).

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"ACT Dynamic Mapping" in Sonar is what is demonstrated in the FL Studio tutorial as "Global Link".
Note in both case you need GUI open (or at least focused).

Just with some small difference: in Sonar it works with "virtual controls" rather then with MIDI messages directly, so it is "hardware independent". Which in turn means you need "Surface plug-in" working in-between.

That can be "Cakewalk ACT MIDI", "Cakewalk Generic Surface" or "AZ Controller". All support "ACT Dynamic Mapping", but AZ Controller has no limitations.

Preparing a preset for Arturia to be used for "Global Links" only will take no more then 15 minutes.

And you don't have to start from scratch: https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,154.0.html
In your case you have 8 + 8 + 2 buttons per "strip". And switch to "Endless", as noted in the description.

Your "Global link" is "ACT" mode (assign a button to change mode, switch in the Overview tab every time or set as default in the Options tab it you want that mode only).

Than you can use "ACT Learn" buttons in sonar, to assign particular controls to particular parameters, the map is separate for each FX/Synth. Effectively what is demonstrated in FL Studio video.

PS. you will need "AZ ACT Fix" utility if what you learn is lost when Sonar is closed... There was (and probably still are) several related bugs, for decades. The utility check things are ok and makes backups.

[azslow3]

I want to mention... It really depends what you want to do. When you have 1-2 pages of controls, so with 16 encoders under 32, "Global Link" / "ACT Dynamic Mapping" / "Novation Automap" / "Akai Pro" / "NI NKS" work fine.
Many FXes have relatively small number of parameters. Many soft synths have "Macro control" set of parameters, normally 8, specially for that purpose. Hardware synths had limited set of physical controls, so corresponding software emulations also have small set of parameters.

But what you have demonstrated before is another case. You want control Soft Synth with 100s of parameters.
That requires many pages of controls, even with 16 encoders 10 - 20, and navigation between pages should be relatively easy and logical. Linear set of pages doesn't work well, f.e. you probably want select OSC/LFO/FX/etc and than which one, not just OSC1->OSC2->OSC3...->LFO1->LFO2..., you may want "one button" switching from particular OSC to particular LFO, the ones you have chosen before. Mentioned technologies don't work well in this case.

Solutions like "NI NKS" allow many operations, including controlling the DAW and controlling Synths, at the same time (you in fact also want Arturia transport section still works when you operate Synth...). So for controller as a whole, they provide special "DAW integrations", with some sections of device working for different tasks.

Unfortunately, even so Cakewalk has open API for surfaces, they so far have not managed to convince many producers provide corresponding integrations. And they don't do that on there own. There was some, from Nektar and Roland, but for "simple" devices only or for mixing. There only more or less complex integration is for Mackie MCU, almost the same for VS700, but both are targeting mixing, not Synth control.

"Big players" prefer "DAW independent" control in any case, I mean Arturia and NI devices have independent integrations for there software. In some cases it "cooperates" with DAW, in some not.

AZ Controller provides a possibility to do almost everything allowed by Cakewalk API to implement integrations, with all kind of approach. So you may have Transport/Strip control/Dynamic mapping/Specialized synth control in one preset for one device. It is just so, someone has to do this for particular device. I have done what was useful for me, for devices I have. And some presets for other. But I can't do that for every device on the market, especially if I don't have it.

[Astraios]

How could I have loaded the *SSP file provided for download if I hadn't already installed the AZ Controller in SONAR?

Furthermore, it seems as though the knobs on my BeatStep Pro are faulty, or there's something wrong with the Arturia software. The knobs behave strangely and cause issues, no matter what I try to set... The controls only function smoothly in absolute mode. It's just pure frustration.

I'm certain that your tool is truly brilliant; Cakewalk or BandLab really should have collaborated with you to develop it further. Thank you very much! 

  Ha, ha - even new Arturia drivers and an MCC update change nothing. In the 30 years I've spent working with MIDI and DAWs, I've encountered this situation time and again.

== A firmware refresh didn't help either.==

[Astraios]

As you can see, Alexey, I just can't stop fiddling around AZ CTRL - but that's exactly how ADHD works...

https://youtu.be/OO_6xuMimZI

So I went until step-3:
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TestBtn1

Beatstep Pro only shows values 01 or 127 in relativ mode...
Okay, I've found out a bit more about encoders and how they work, and it actually looks like my BeatStep Pro is functioning perfectly.

[azslow3]

I have not understood your comment about SPP file... but that is not important.

From you video.
Are you continuously turning knobs, or just "a bit left" "a bit right"? Unfortunately AZ Controller is not reporting if messages repeat.
If you just "tick left" / "tick right", the video demonstrate that everything is working fine... You change the level from 1.0 to 0.99 (since it doesn't show precise value, in practice it changes by 1/128).

If you in fact was turning way longer in one direction, something is not working.
In your last video you was using separate MIDI monitor. Can you check the controller continuously sending value 1 when you turn in one direction and 127 when in another, so you should see MANY messages with the same value when you continue turning?
Can it be you have some intermediate software which tries to be "smart" and filter out repeated messages?

If you have some "MIDI loops" which reach Sonar, so you route your device throw some software which can duplicate MIDI messages, Sonar can start to think you have "hardware MIDI loop" and it will try to be "smart", f.e. by blocking exactly the same messages.

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Encoders in "endless" mode are sending one value for one direction and another for opposite direction. That is desired, not a bug. And AZ Controller is able to deal with 1 and 127 (and any other). In worse case you will have to tick "reverse" option, in case the value changes in "wrong" direction (so, you turn clockwise but the parameter value decrease). Or set "Alternative endless encoders" in the Options tab.

But for that, repeated messages have to be delivered to AZ Controller...

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To use endless mode, receiving end has to be ready to interpret it. In AZ Controller you set "Endless" in option. In other software the name is different (f.e. in "Cakewalk ACT MIDI" it is called "Increment/Decrement"). But if you try to use it with unaware software, like "Remote control" in Sonar, the result will be strange. That is also expected and not a bug.

[Astraios]

Hi Alexey,
whenever I turn it to the left, the MIDI monitor shows 00/7F, and when I turn it to the right, it shows 00/01. Every time I turn it just a fraction of a millimeter further, another command is triggered. This is the Arturia "Relative 2" mode.
The loopMIDI tool is currently inactive and unassigned; there is no other MIDI software integrated into this Sonar project.

The bit about the SSP was a misunderstanding on my part—sorry about that!

[Astraios]

Der Arturia BeatStep Pro verfügt über 16 endlose Drehregler (Encoder), die sich im CC-Control-Modus zwischen absolutem und relativem Betrieb umschalten lassen. [1, 2, 3]

Was sind relative Modi?

Im Gegensatz zum absoluten Modus (bei dem die Drehregler feste Werte von 0 bis 127 ausgeben) senden relative Encoder Inkremente oder dekrementieren den Wert ausgehend von der aktuellen Position der Software oder der Hardware, die gesteuert wird. Das verhindert plötzliche Wertesprünge (Parameter Jumps), wenn ein Regler in der DAW oder am Hardware-Synth anders steht als die physische Position am BeatStep Pro. [1]



Die 3 relativen Modi des BeatStep Pro

Im Arturia MIDI Control Center lassen sich für die Encoder verschiedene relative Typen auswählen:

Relative #1: Sendet bei Drehung im Uhrzeigersinn einen höheren Wert (typischerweise um die Mitte herum, z. B. 0x41 / 65) und gegen den Uhrzeigersinn einen niedrigeren Wert (0x3F / 63). [1, 2]

Relative #2: Arbeitet oft mit binären oder schrittweisen Sprüngen (z. B. 0% / 100% bzw. Umschaltung zwischen Extremwerten, je nach Software-Interpretation). [1, 2]

Relative #3: Nutzt einen anderen Hexadezimal- bzw. Zahlenbereich zur feineren oder alternativen Schrittübertragung (z. B. Wertebereich um 15/16 oder 11/0F).



Typische Probleme & Lösungen

Regler springt nur zwischen 0 und 127 / nur zwei Werten: Wenn die Zielsoftware (z. B. bestimmte VSTs oder DAWs) einen Encoder nicht als Relative interpretiert, sondern ihn als normalen absoluten CC liest, verhält sich der Regler oft fehlerhaft und schaltet nur zwischen Min- und Max-Werten hin und her. Die Software-Mapping-Optionen der DAW müssen explizit auf den passenden relativen Encoder-Typ (z. B. Relative (Signed Bit) oder Binary Offset) eingestellt werden. [1]

[azslow3]

Well, I know what relative modes normally do. And "Encoder" mode in AZController is for them (most of them work correctly, except the "direction" which sometimes has to be checked).

The question is, why it doesn't work for you?
If some value, let say 127, is repeatedly delivered to AZ Controller, you should see corresponding parameter increasing or decreasing. In all these years, with all possible controllers, I so far have not observed failures with that.

Common, assign some button to that Knob control and by pressing the button you should see the parameter is changing (obviously in one direction). I was even controlling track volume with a single pedal on my DP (depending from how far I press it, it was gradually increasing or decreasing volume  )