Renaming bus cache clear has not been implemented on latest Cakewalk release

[norfolkmastering]

Hi Alexey

The advanced copy of the new Cakewalk by Bandlab version: 2023.09 has just been released.

You may remember that you reported an issue to Mark McLeod that 'When destination (bus) is renamed, old name is reported by  GetMixParamValueText(... MIX_PARAM_OUTPUT ...).'

You may remember that Mark agreed to provide a fix to clear the cache whenever Bus, Aux track, or Patch Points are renamed.

I just updated to the latest version and the problem appears to still remain.

I've attached the test AZ preset which I used to test.

I have also read through the bug fix list and the fix does not appear on the list.

As this is the last planned update to the free Cakewalk by Bandlab, I want to get this fix included in the final release.

I remember you preferred to deal with Mark on this so can you let me know if you are okay to raise it with Mark? or whether you want me to do it?

Link to the update and feedback is at https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/forum/36-early-access-program/

Regards
Robert

[azslow3]

Hi Robert,

report your observation to Cakewalk, I don't have any special relations to them. Also I am not sure I can test anything next days (the end of vacation).

Alexey.

[norfolkmastering]

Okay I have reported as feedback in the early release topic.

[norfolkmastering]

Hi Alexey

I got a reply from Mark confirming that the new release of Cakewalk by Bandlab does clear the cache whenever Bus, Aux track or Patch Points are renamed.

They forgot to add it to the list of bug fixes on the new release documentation but it has been done.

So I did further testing of my system using:
Cakewalk by Bandlab Version: 2023.09 (Build 055, 64bit)
AZ V0.5r11 b422
AZ Controller Preset 'Bus Names v4 (I sent you a copy in last post)

Here are the issues I have observed:

1. When a bus name is changed, a track routed to that bus does not reliably trigger a corresponding AZ feedback.  Occasionally a feedback output is triggered but most times not.

2. Changing a track send destination triggers the corresponding AZ feedback output only for track 1.  Other tracks do not trigger AZ feedback when their send destination is changed.

3. Track send destination names are always reported as the stereo pair friendly names rather than the mono friendly name, e.g. a track send destination to 'DAW1' is reported as 'DAW1 + DAW2'.

I have written a major new enhancement for my mixer control software which will allow total flexibility of the number of tracks in Cakewalk within a project and will allow track slot positions to be rearranged whilst preserving the mapping of Cakewalk to mixer mapping.  This is similar to what I have already been able to achieve for buses when I changed over to name based routing.  However I cannot implement the new software until the issues I have listed have been resolved.

I would appreciate if you could test the above issues when you have time.

Best regards
Robert

[azslow3]

Hi Robert,

I have replied in the Cakewalk thread. Sends related API is still broken (at least I can't get it work correctly...).

Changes in bus names seems like working ok for me with 'Bus Names v4' preset.

I can only return the destination name I get from Cakewalk... But somehow I have the feeling (not sure) that the "number" returned for the destination does not changed when switching between L/R/Stereo. Or that may be yet another consequence of reported problem with Sends, I mean the value is cached when it should not.
Note that in API mono outputs are "visible" as separate, but there is just one number for "destination" and no indication it is stereo or mono.
It seems like Cakewalk is using different API calls to get names for sends and outputs, bypassing these numbers. But from what I remember I have specially switched from it for target names,
to not overload Cakewalk. So the situation is somehow messy...

[norfolkmastering]

Hi Alexey
Thanks for the update.

1/
I repeated the bus names test and it is still not working for me.  I made a short video to show you but I need to find a way to send you the video?  It has a .mkv extension.
Can I email it to you?

Once you get the video, you will see:
When I change a bus name, then the change of name is correctly shown in the top row of AZ display and the SysEx message for the bus name change is output.
However you will see that the track output name is not changing in the second row of AZ display and the SysEx message for track output is not generated.

With many tests I found that it sometimes works with the first bus name change and then after that it fails to work.


2/
Thanks for contacting Cakewalk about the sends relate API issue.  Hopefully they can provide a fix.

3/
It would be great if you could look at using the API call to get names for track sends.  These are what I need to work with if it allows differentiation between stereo, left and right friendly names.  If I cannot generate unique feedback outputs for these, then my enhanced track scheme is impossible.


Best regards
Robert

[norfolkmastering]

Hi Alexey
Further to my last post, I have uploaded the short video to YouTube.  Link is https://youtu.be/rZoRIX9BfAc
Regards
Robert

[azslow3]

If I understand Mark correctly, he has fixed something... let see when the next pre-release is uploaded...

[norfolkmastering]

Understood and agreed.
Regards
Robert

[norfolkmastering]

Hi Alexey

A further interim release of Cakewalk by Bandlab has just been released. V2023.09 (Build 062, 64bit)
So I retested the two issues which we were hoping would be solved by this update.

1.  Changing a track send destination now triggers the corresponding AZ feedback output for all tracks reliably.

2.  When a bus name is changed, a track routed to that bus still does not reliably trigger a corresponding AZ feedback.  Only very occasionally, a feedback output is triggered.  I did 50 tests of changing the bus name and only 2 times was the AZ feedback output triggered.

I would would be grateful if you could check point 2. above at your end and let me know if you think it is still a Cakewalk software issue or something to be sorted in AZ Controller please.  There is probably only a small time window to request further fixes in Cakewalk before the release is made public.

Regards
Robert

[azslow3]

Hi Robert,

I have checked, Cakewalk still return cached names for outputs (so (2) is still on Cakewalk side).

Regards,
Alexey.

[norfolkmastering]

Okay I will contact them today.
Thanks
Robert

[norfolkmastering]

Hi Alexey

I just received an email from Mark McLeod.

Mark and his team have today tested the bus rename on three different control surfaces and they are all updating the track output names correctly.

Mark has told me that a bus rename does not trigger a topology update message and wonders if the AZ Controller is reliant on this for triggering the track output name feedback output?

Let me know please and I'll report back to Mark.  If you prefer to email him then let me have your email address and I'll copy his reply to you.

Best regards
Robert

[azslow3]

Hi Robert,

I am using GetMixParamValueText(... MIX_PARAM_OUTPUT ...).
After renaming the bus, GetMixParamValueText(... MIX_PARAM_SEND_OUTPUT ...) returns new name (in case the send is pointing to that bus),
but GetMixParamValueText(... MIX_PARAM_OUTPUT ...) returns OLD name for that bus. Note that in my log (from the preset we are testing) the calls are in mentioned order,
so new bus name is definitively "known" when I ask for the output name.

I will check tomorrow which version I am really using, I have just updated CbB without remembering the version I got. But since sends are working now, I guess I have what
they have uploaded.

I can also check what they are using for surfaces and use the same way to get the name. But I still believe there is some bug. And if that is the last update,
I guess we better clarify it now instead of introducing a workaround in AZ Controller.

The fact topology flag is not set after some relevant changes just force me "re-scan" related parameters/labels continuously. That is inefficient, especially when for internal
reasons related API calls are "heavy" for the DAW, but works...

Cheers,
Alexey.

[norfolkmastering]

Hi Alexey

Your explanation was very clear and I have passed on a summary to Mark.

It does not seem logical that, after a bus name change:

GetMixParamValueText(... MIX_PARAM_SEND_OUTPUT ...) returns new bus name

but GetMixParamValueText(... MIX_PARAM_OUTPUT ...) returns the OLD name for that bus

I have tested on my AZ preset and I can see this behaviour using the AZ display.

I just wonder if Mark has been been testing only the GetMixParamValueText(... MIX_PARAM_SEND_OUTPUT ...)?

I'll let you know what he replies next.

Thanks for staying with this!

Regards
Robert