Author Topic: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question  (Read 11727 times)

Offline MarKo

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Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« on: April 20, 2015, 12:34:46 AM »
Hi AzSlow,

First of all - many, many thanks for this masterpiece!

Although i had to spend quite some hours to understand and get most things working like i want, i am really happy now!
i have a BCR2000 and never had such amazing possibilities!
it has 8x4 rotaries (with led-rings), 8x3 buttons and 12 extra buttons, all withs led´s.
with the help of the startup-preset, i was able to configure this to have tracks (shifted by8), busses and ACT (not yet tried),
with all important params and correct immediate status/value feedback by the leds + rings (bidirectional).
So this is exactly what i dreamed of!

But i have a small problem with my button led feedback :'(
The buttons on the BCR seem to always go on when pressed, and go off when released - i found no way of disabling this.
This means if State goes to on and i´m to slow in releasing the button - then first the led goes on correctly by feedback action,
but after release of the button, it goes off again, so has now the wrong state!
I tried some things, but could not get the ultimate result. Pressing the buttons very fast works, but is annoying,
also setting the monitor speed to "slow" seems to help, but is no real solution.
I can reconfigure the buttons of the BCR to send values 0/127 instead of 127/0 on press/release -
this kind works, because then the "release"-event is used, but now the "value" for the state-led is just the opposite,
and "inverted value" seems no option.

Do you have an idea how to solve this?
I hope you understand my question (i´m german)

thanks again, m.

Offline azslow3

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 10:46:53 AM »
But i have a small problem with my button led feedback :'(
The buttons on the BCR seem to always go on when pressed, and go off when released - i found no way of disabling this.
This means if State goes to on and i´m to slow in releasing the button - then first the led goes on correctly by feedback action,
but after release of the button, it goes off again, so has now the wrong state!
I tried some things, but could not get the ultimate result. Pressing the buttons very fast works, but is annoying,
also setting the monitor speed to "slow" seems to help, but is no real solution.
I can reconfigure the buttons of the BCR to send values 0/127 instead of 127/0 on press/release -
this kind works, because then the "release"-event is used, but now the "value" for the state-led is just the opposite,
and "inverted value" seems no option.

Do you have an idea how to solve this?
I know the problem, I have it with my devices.

The key is to resend correct value on release. Add "Monitor reset" (select particular monitor for the same button) Action with "Note: Off" condition. So once you release the button, it will send correct code one more time.

The solution is not perfect since between the button release and the monitor it is up to 1/13 of a second (LED is off during that time).
That is not easy to fix. Triggering "immediate" monitoring is not a solution, due to internal SONAR logic when you change some parameter and immediately ask for it, old value is returned. For plug-in internal state changes I just send whatever is right instead of re-triggering and it works fine for me (no perceptible flickering).

I hope at some lucky day better solution visit my head.

Quote
I hope you understand my question (i´m german)
I am Russian, but I am in HD  ;)

Offline MarKo

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 01:27:44 PM »
Thanks, i got it working with "Monitor reset".
But i could not enter the "Note: Off" condition - it jumps back to NoteOn?
Or where should i put this condition?
But it seems to work ok without this condition, the short flickering is really no problem, just cosmetic.

Perhaps related to this (the button release), i have another question.
i think i do not fully understand the Action conditions, maybe i´m doing something wrong.
now i wanted to add "Shift" function and tried to follow your example in "Programming for Musicians".
i must be overlooking something, because i can not find the place where to add "button pressed" and "unpressed". If you meant that "Note: Off" condition is the "unpressed" event, then it doesn´t work or i´m too stupid. Could you please explain this again?

Quote
I am Russian, but I am in HD  ;)
athough i just meant "german-speaking" (i´m from austria), i am sometimes quite close to HD too ;)

Offline azslow3

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 03:35:03 PM »
Conditions are specified for every Action separately.

Select Monitor reset action (displayed as "- Reset ... : : ... Monitor" in the list). Locate "Action conditions" part. Select "Note (On)" here. Right from it, select "Off". In the action list you should see "Note:Off - Reset .. :: ... Monitor".

"Note" is a bit special State Set. It is controlled by plug-in. Every action has this condition set, it is "Note:On" by default and it is not displayed (it will "bloat" the list otherwise).

To use "Note" condition successfully, corresponding "Hardware Control" (in the "Options" Tab) should be set to "Pad". In this case, it is "Off" in case of "Note OFF"/"Note ON Value 0"/"CC Value 0"/"KP Value 0" MIDI events. The problem is that "CC 0" should normally be processed as usual for encoders and sliders, but means "Released" for almost all buttons/pads.

In the first release, it was set to OFF on "Note OFF" MIDI event only, so the name "Note" is historical. Real meaning is "Button pressed or released" "ON/OFF".

If you specify "Monitor reset" without Note:Off, for Pads/Buttons it will schedule monitoring on "Press" only. And you really need it on "Release". Depending on the monitor speed, you can see no difference at first. But with "Ultra" speed you should easily notice the difference. In case you use not Ultra speed, set trigger "Now". You can get long delay before the LED light again otherwise.


Offline MarKo

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 04:25:41 PM »
ok, i think i understood and i did it like you described.
Works perfectly now, thank you!
Before, i had put the "Monitor reset" in the feedback tab - but this also seemed to work?

Offline azslow3

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 05:02:44 PM »
Monitor reset can be called from feedback as well but that is not the way to do it in this case (you have created "endless loop").

Why you can see it works:
1) button change the parameter
2) monitor notice that, send new value and schedule itself
3) monitor trigger unconditionally (since reset), send new value and schedule itself
4) monitor trigger unconditionally (since reset), send new value and schedule itself
...

So, you see the light since you resend it all the time.

Offline MarKo

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2015, 11:19:04 AM »
OK, i understand now.
I´m working now on some ideas and i think i´ll be back with some more questions.
thanks again.

Offline Camilo Melo

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2015, 07:54:20 PM »
Hi! Thank you for this great plugin. I have a BCR2000 and two MCU/BCF2000 running Mackie emulation. I have a question. I have programmed a preset to control Pro Channel basically, EQ, Comp 76, Saturator and so on. With strip sellection, Filter aimed. All was running like a charm untill a midii track selection and Sonar freezes. The problem just happens when something is pressed on hardware with midi track selected. So, i have included a condition "MIDI Track (no)" in the programming but the problem decreased but not desapeared. Now is like the plugin had changed to a empty preset so it's needed a manual preset selection to function to back again. I have noted other freeze with a presence of Sonnitus direct x gate on a track too. Greetings from Brazil and  thank you for all.

Offline azslow3

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 08:30:46 PM »
Hi! Thank you for this great plugin. I have a BCR2000 and two MCU/BCF2000 running Mackie emulation. I have a question. I have programmed a preset to control Pro Channel basically, EQ, Comp 76, Saturator and so on. With strip sellection, Filter aimed. All was running like a charm untill a midii track selection and Sonar freezes. The problem just happens when something is pressed on hardware with midi track selected. So, i have included a condition "MIDI Track (no)" in the programming but the problem decreased but not desapeared. Now is like the plugin had changed to a empty preset so it's needed a manual preset selection to function to back again. I have noted other freeze with a presence of Sonnitus direct x gate on a track too. Greetings from Brazil and  thank you for all.
Thank you for giving it a try. And sorry that you have some problems.

Preset does nothing special on MIDI tracks except setting "MIDI" internal state. That code is relatively new, I will recheck. But most probably something in SONAR is the problem origin. Temporarily disable monitors first and see if the problem disappear (add some State Set "DisableMonitors" with "No"/"Yes" and add the condition to all monitors, you can then disable them just by switching the state in the Overview Tab). If you can trace down to some simple project/track and send me the project+preset so I can reproduces the bug, I can try to understand what is going on.

"Empty" preset means that either I save it wrong or Sonar has corrupted it (can happened after crash/freeze). It can (theoretically) be FX plug-ins related since I scan/save names of all of them.

I am waiting for the first report that my plug-in has some internal bug. Up to now Sonar crashed was inducted by plug-in,
I mean valid action combinations can cause  Sonar crashes because of Sonar bugs. Since you have control over all executed actions, it is possible just avoid "bad combinations" once they are found. But "the first BUG" should come, there is no bug free programs except TeX  ;)

Offline Camilo Melo

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 08:48:26 PM »
Thank you for the fast answer. I'll make the modifications. How can i send you that small project+preset to you?

Offline azslow3

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2015, 09:27:52 PM »
I have tried to send PM to you. Not sure it works since never tested ;)

Offline azslow3

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 10:14:01 PM »
Thank you for the fast answer. I'll make the modifications. How can i send you that small project+preset to you?
I could open the project, but somehow SONAR does not see AZ Preset file (CAMILIO). Can you export it throw plug-in manager?

But even without the preset I see possible problem in the project. You route the MIDI track to/from BCF (at lest to BCF). Is that on purpose? Once you select the track, it enters auto echo mode. And once you touch any control and AZ Controller does not block it, it is looped back to BCF. There was reports in OF that can drive Sonar and device crazy.

It can happened that I just see something different that you. But can you recheck that you do not use BCF (or other controllers) MIDI inputs/outputs on tracks (at least not simultaneously as IN AND OUT on the same track). 

Offline Camilo Melo

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 12:26:47 AM »
Thank you for the fast answer. I'll make the modifications. How can i send you that small project+preset to you?
I could open the project, but somehow SONAR does not see AZ Preset file (CAMILIO). Can you export it throw plug-in manager?

But even without the preset I see possible problem in the project. You route the MIDI track to/from BCF (at lest to BCF). Is that on purpose? Once you select the track, it enters auto echo mode. And once you touch any control and AZ Controller does not block it, it is looped back to BCF. There was reports in OF that can drive Sonar and device crazy.

It can happened that I just see something different that you. But can you recheck that you do not use BCF (or other controllers) MIDI inputs/outputs on tracks (at least not simultaneously as IN AND OUT on the same track).

Hi, Alexey.

PM just sended.

Thanks!!

Offline azslow3

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 08:23:35 PM »
You are the first user (except myself) who has pinned down real severe bug in AZ Controller. Thank you!

Please download the latest version (0.3r7) which should fix the problem.

Somehow I have not tested my MCU preset in EQ mode switching between MIDI/Audio tracks. And I do not have named ProChannel parameters monitoring in other presets I use.

The bug was in the code which "fights" against known Sonar bug... that is not an excuse, I know. "MIDI Track:No" could not help, because it was really happening when you switch between audio/midi tracks.

Thank you again, and excuse me for the time you spend for that.

PS. You preset is fine.  Just small comments (nothing really changing the result):
* As you can see in this thread, there is a bit better workaround for button leds. You "Reset monitor in 2 cycles". Better change it to "Reset as usual" but add "Note: Off" condition to it. In that case it will retrigger it not in 3/13 of second but inside 1/13 after you release the button.
* You have "reselected" MIDI in monitors. (CC: Channel: number:), you can use "<Use Ctrl MIDI>" instead (it is always the same as assigned to the control MIDI)
* In strip selection you always select "Current" parameter in addition to the "<Current>" strip. "Current" parameter is an "artificial" parameter for monitoring either selected (by actions) strip is selected. In other words, you can leave default "Value"

Offline Camilo Melo

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Re: Hi, Thanks, and BCR2000 question
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 09:33:21 PM »
You are the first user (except myself) who has pinned down real severe bug in AZ Controller. Thank you!

Please download the latest version (0.3r7) which should fix the problem.

Somehow I have not tested my MCU preset in EQ mode switching between MIDI/Audio tracks. And I do not have named ProChannel parameters monitoring in other presets I use.

The bug was in the code which "fights" against known Sonar bug... that is not an excuse, I know. "MIDI Track:No" could not help, because it was really happening when you switch between audio/midi tracks.

Thank you again, and excuse me for the time you spend for that.

PS. You preset is fine.  Just small comments (nothing really changing the result):
* As you can see in this thread, there is a bit better workaround for button leds. You "Reset monitor in 2 cycles". Better change it to "Reset as usual" but add "Note: Off" condition to it. In that case it will retrigger it not in 3/13 of second but inside 1/13 after you release the button.
* You have "reselected" MIDI in monitors. (CC: Channel: number:), you can use "<Use Ctrl MIDI>" instead (it is always the same as assigned to the control MIDI)
* In strip selection you always select "Current" parameter in addition to the "<Current>" strip. "Current" parameter is an "artificial" parameter for monitoring either selected (by actions) strip is selected. In other words, you can leave default "Value"

Thank you, Alexey. I will apply the new version. This is a great piece of software indeed. I have used it for more than a year with a more simple preset and now i decided go ahead with a more complete solution for my BCR2000. Your plugin is the best solution ever. Greetings from Brazil...