AZSlow
AZ Controller plug-in for Cakewalk SONAR => Discussions => Topic started by: MarKo on June 21, 2015, 11:12:13 PM
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Hi friends,
here is the next version of the BCR-preset, but it´s still in progress...
it´s a major redesign compared to the first version and also requires a new preset to be loaded into the BCR.
All rotaries send now midi-endless-values and have accelaration.
I don´t want to repeat, so please read the first paragraph of http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,208.0.html (http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,208.0.html) for progamming the BCR.
1. the preset BCR2000 for AzCtrl beta2.syx must be loaded into BCR, and selected.
2. Import BCR2000_beta2.spp in PlugIn-Manager
2. in Az-Ctrl-PlugIn, select above preset
Main changes:
+ all encoders endless with acceleration
+ first row shares VU + Vol, this frees 8 encoders for global funcs:
+ ZoomIn/Out/Hor/Vert,Jog,Shuttle,Master! in bottom row.
+ Global Solo/mute Led/btn
in Channel-Mode:
+ Send 1-4
+ EQ/ConsEmu Typ
+ because we have now a direct rotary for position shuttle, there is really no need for FWD/REW buttons, this frees 2 buttons for markers/selection
i hope the attached picture is clear enough, i´m working on a little readme.
first i was focussed on getting the overall-logic esp. the rotaries to work properly, so there are many free places for Shift or Ctrl-functions, and i´m still thinking/experimenting...
the DL is a Zip with both required files and should be renamed to zip to unzip it.
i hope you get it working and share your ideas...
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Thanks for all your hard work been hanging out for this, will check it out probably Thursday and give you some feedback
Regards
Stevie
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HI:)
Thank you, I'll try out this morning!
Basie
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Hi again:)
With 0.3r9 seria the spp File doesn't load, i have to install te latest test version instead!
OK:
In EQ Mode all is like you have written in your picture! Only One Knob does nothing, (CC80) 16. Knob.
In Track Mode it's different, volume is on the Encoders, then Pan, then Send 1, and the first row (CC97 to 104) Zoom and R 5,6,7 does nothing, 5 affects Volume on Track 4! R8 does Fast forward and backward.
Start, Play, Next Marker ok but I don't know what to do with the preset knobs?? Store is toggle between tracks and busses, learn is nothing I think, it does nothing...
I've tried to ACT Learn with some Syntesizers, but it do not work, has it?
Great work! I love it:)
Basie
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Hi again:)
With 0.3r9 seria the spp File doesn't load, i have to install te latest test version instead!
Presets are not forward compatible, 0.4 (current test) has modified preset format. So presets created in it are not working in 3.9 (or early).
0.4 is ready for release, unfortunately Alphatrack users still have not confirmed the modifications...
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Hi Basie,
Fine that you got it working!
I don´t understand why you couldn´t load it with 0.3r9, because that´s what i am using (0.3r9 b221), but anyway - you got it working.
Maybe there are still some bugs, and some things are still not finished (you found some).
i will look for these things in the next days.
the picture should show the current layout quite well:
we have 3 main modes:
- 8Track-Mode: the description is on the right (for all 8 strips), except the bottom row, which has zoom, jog,master...
- Channel-Mode: the colored labels below the knobs (EQ-bands, Compressor and ConsoleEmulation sections are also colored, so should be pretty obvious from the pic)
- ACT: depends on your assignment
do you say the whole bottom row does nothing?
there is just one knob not finished, R4: i want to select prev/next track, but did not find the right command yet (Alexey?)
R5,R6 do scrubbing in different speeds, and R7 is always the master (in Trackmode).
R8 does shuttle forw/back in Bars (i dont need the standard forward/rew function).
"Store" is Bus/Track toggle
"Learn" is toggle ACT mode
but that should labeled in the picture.
i could explain more, but unfortunately i have not much time at the moment (i´m at work).
The formerly preset-buttons are now Ctrl (green) and Shift (blue). The colors of the button-labels indicate what the button does when pressed with Shift or Ctrl.
E.g. Marker left < is shifted: Set Selection Start, and with Ctrtl it´s Set Marker (Del Marker not working).
Note that you also can press: Shift+Ctrl, or Ctrl+Shift (order!) for Az-Display and Multidock.
What is not finished: forget the AZ-display at the moment, this has not been adapted for these changes. And in ACT-mode, Bank-switching and changig plugins is missing, but apart from that ACT is working ok. See Alexeys general ACT-Tips, i have to say that i tried many different ways, in the end i just open a plugin once in ACT to get a default assignment and edit the genericpluginparams.xml by hand, this is reliable.
Maybe you have not seen the ACT-button (Learn). Only when in ACT-mode (indicated by Led) it is working as you expect for ACT device.
The other modes have nothing to do with ACT!
A little bit more to come, but i think overall this should be working quite well.
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Presets are not forward compatible, 0.4 (current test) has modified preset format. So presets created in it are not working in 3.9 (or early).
Strange, because i am on 0.3r9 b221, but i will update today, so the next preset will be based on the newer format.
Some short questions:
i´m looking for Select prev/next strip, all i found are the "star-commands" *NEXT/PREV STRIP, which dont seem to work. and rebuilding the logic in AzCtrl was not really reliable.
Also i found no working command for Del Marker, but that´s not important.
Rude Solo: does not include busses? (in Sonar-toolbar, busses are included)
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Presets are not forward compatible, 0.4 (current test) has modified preset format. So presets created in it are not working in 3.9 (or early).
Strange, because i am on 0.3r9 b221, but i will update today, so the next preset will be based on the newer format.
Yes, strange... It should be possible to load the preset in the version which you use.
Some short questions:
i´m looking for Select prev/next strip, all i found are the "star-commands" *NEXT/PREV STRIP, which dont seem to work. and rebuilding the logic in AzCtrl was not really reliable.
*Select Strip <Current> +1 (or -1)
*Function "Select strip"
"star-commands" are in general not working, but some are doing staff otherwise not possible to reproduce (used in MCU, that is how I have found them)
Rude Solo: does not include busses? (in Sonar-toolbar, busses are included)
There are separate functions for "Rude Track solo" and "Rude Bus solo". Can be handy in some cases. For example you have one soloed bus but want solo/unsolo tracks without touching it. Just use 2 commands in one action list to switch both.
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There are separate functions for "Rude Track solo" and "Rude Bus solo". Can be handy in some cases. For example you have one soloed bus but want solo/unsolo tracks without touching it. Just use 2 commands in one action list to switch both.
i think you are talking about the "all" actions, but i meant the Strip parameter value. i want to show "overall" solo status - so if anything is soloed. so i guess i have to combine Track and Bus rude solo into this monitor.
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It looks like "Rude solo/mute for Bus" does not work... I will find some solution tomorrow.
I must admit, I am not using this statuses for buses. I do not have many buses in my projects and if some bus is muted/soloed I immediately understand that from the sound. With tracks the situation is different, I can easily forget about some muted track, especially when its contribution is subtle in the overall mix. So, for me it is important to have "some track muted" separate from "some bus muted" (which can easily be the case for reverb/delay buses). I know, it is probably noob understanding of this things ;)
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It looks like "Rude solo/mute for Bus" does not work... I will find some solution tomorrow.
no problem, of course you are right that this is not so important for busses, because it should really be obvious to hear. i was just wondering and trying to make it perfect.
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I have checked with X2 and my source code, and the result is the same as with Splat.
I have asked for "Rude solo/mute" as Sonar declare that. Independent from the strip type selected. So, Sonar returns Rude Solo/Mute for tracks only. Also I have notices that in the "tip" of corresponding Sonar toolbar button they mention "All tracks", not "All strips". Interesting, that bus mute does not influence mute status there but bus solo does...
In the latest test version, select "Master" strip type to get Track or Bus common solo/mute, "Bus" for bus only, "Track" for track only.
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Hi MarKo:)
Today mornig I've had time to test all!
>>>do you say the whole bottom row does nothing?
My fault! Except R4 and MASTER all is working. What do you mean with Master? Master Volume? OK, this does not work.
Zoom and Shuttle is absolutely great, much faster to work with then the normal commands!
>>>Note that you also can press: Shift+Ctrl, or Ctrl+Shift (order!) for Az-Display and Multidock.
Ah that's it, I wondered how to use it:)
2 other things "ProCh" and "Auto", don't know what to do with it....
But after all I'm very happy with it, very fast to work with it, for most things you can forget the mouse!!
Thank you very much;)
Basie
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In the latest test version, select "Master" strip type to get Track or Bus common solo/mute, "Bus" for bus only, "Track" for track only.
thank you, i will try that.
we know that Sonar-API is sometimes strange :(
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Hi Basie,
What do you mean with Master? Master Volume? OK, this does not work.
hmm, how is your setup? you have one master or more?
Zoom and Shuttle is absolutely great, much faster to work with then the normal commands!
yes i also like these very much, and i´m getting more and used to scrubbing for finding cuts.
2 other things "ProCh" and "Auto", don't know what to do with it....
you found what´s not implemented yet ;)
But after all I'm very happy with it, very fast to work with it, for most things you can forget the mouse!!
i´m glad that you like it. As you see there are some buttons and shift/ctrl-functions still free.
i have some plans, but if you also have ideas/wishes, then tell me.
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Hi MarKo:)
>>>hmm, how is your setup? you have one master or more?
Ok:) It's not the Bus Master, it's for the Main Soundcard Output. I never used this....always at 0 dB, ever!
there are 17 possible Master Outs, I only use Spdif Digital Out and I can't remember I have touched this fader only 1 time:)
>>>i´m glad that you like it. As you see there are some buttons and shift/ctrl-functions still free.
>>>i have some plans, but if you also have ideas/wishes, then tell me.
What I always wanted to do and there is no Key Command in Sonar:
I often use Gain Reduction on small pieces of Voice Tracks by 1,2 or 3 dB, especially on "s" and "t", I have Ctrl-G mapped as a Key command, but the you have to manually select if to reduce or increase gain and how much.
It will be a dream to do that just with 6 commands:
-1,-2,-3, +1,+2, +3 dB.... not possible with Key Commands inside Sonar:(
So for me at the moment I don't need any more functions. Let's see what your plans are;)
Greetings:)
Basie
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Ok:) It's not the Bus Master, it's for the Main Soundcard Output. I never used this....always at 0 dB, ever!
if you don´t need the master-output, perhaps you could use this knob for your "Master-BUS". or do you only use your Amp/speakers-volume?
The reason for master-ouput was for me: i can´t reach my real Amp/Speaker volume so easily, that´s why i wanted it on BCR, so i can quickly adjust main volume (ofcourse you have to reset it to 0dB before final exporting).
What I always wanted to do and there is no Key Command in Sonar...
i don´t think there is an easy way to do this, but i will look.
So for me at the moment I don't need any more functions. Let's see what your plans are;)
i have already some more improvements:
- fine-mode for all encoders(+Status-LED for that), so you can make very fine adjustments.
- Shift/Ctrl-Key improvements: state with timeout, so you don´t need to hold the modifier key, you can press first Shift, and then the Command-key
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What I always wanted to do and there is no Key Command in Sonar:
I often use Gain Reduction on small pieces of Voice Tracks by 1,2 or 3 dB, especially on "s" and "t", I have Ctrl-G mapped as a Key command, but the you have to manually select if to reduce or increase gain and how much.
It will be a dream to do that just with 6 commands:
-1,-2,-3, +1,+2, +3 dB.... not possible with Key Commands inside Sonar:(
You can do this with some "keyboard macro" utility. And you can do this with AZCtrl as well ;)
I attach a test preset. It is for 0.4+ version of plug-in (current in test download)!
You need assign some buttons to test it (if you have done QuickStart tutorial, you should know how). Also it does not apply by default since you can have different presets list for the Gain processor (but it is in case you change "DoCut" from "No" to "Yes" in the Overview Tab).
The idea is simple: it first call the processor (just like your Ctrl-G), 3 times call "Shift+Tab" to change focus into the preset selection box, then "PgUp" to select the first preset, then required number of "Down" arrow and finally (with condition) it press "Enter".
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Hi Alexey,
i have problems since version 0.4b237
none of the "blink"-functions are working any more.
it took a little time until i realized, then i went back until one of your soloselected-examples and that didn´t work too. fortunately i have exported presets with older version (3b9.221), but also also the improvements that i did with 0.4 until now.
i can reproducable go back 3b9 series and it works again, but i can´t find a reason why it does not in 0.4.
everything else seems to work...
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Hi:)
@MarKo
>>>if you don´t need the master-output, perhaps you could use this knob for your "Master-BUS". or do you only use your >>>Amp/speakers-volume?
>>>The reason for master-ouput was for me: i can´t reach my real Amp/Speaker volume so easily, that´s why i wanted it on >>>BCR, so i can quickly adjust main volume (ofcourse you have to reset it to 0dB before final exporting).
I found it --> s_Mode:8Trk Master Volume and changed it to s_Mode:8Trk Bus Volume
and it worked:)
In Studio I have an old 02r for recording and it's just on the left beside me, so I don't need this Soundcard Master...
>>>i have already some more improvements:
>>>- fine-mode for all encoders(+Status-LED for that), so you can make very fine adjustments.
>>>- Shift/Ctrl-Key improvements: state with timeout, so you don´t need to hold the modifier key, you can press first Shift, >>>and then the Command-key
Fine Mode would be nice!! Now you change in steps of 0.25 dB perhaps. You can't hear the difference, so Fine Mode isn't really necessesary, but as I said, it would be fine;)
Shift Time-Out! Yes!!! I don't like those finger stretchings....
@azSlow3
>>>You can do this with some "keyboard macro" utility. And you can do this with AZCtrl as well ;)
WOW!! I'm trying to get this on some Knobs of MarKos Preset....I hope I'm getting it to work! Thanks a lot!!
Basie:)
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Hi Alexey,
i have problems since version 0.4b237
none of the "blink"-functions are working any more.
it took a little time until i realized, then i went back until one of your soloselected-examples and that didn´t work too.
Can you point me which one?
As you can see in the "bugtracker" post, I have touched quite some core parts. State processing was completely rewritten. There can be some regression and we have to find it.
I have found the bug, it was introduced during strip parameters changes (input/output and rude solo/mute). Please download 0.4b242.
Thanks for spotting!
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@azSlow3
You can do this with some "keyboard macro" utility. And you can do this with AZCtrl as well ;)
I was able to integrate it into MarKos Preset:)
But it always changes the whole clip! Is it possible to just gain a selected area from a clip?
Thank you;)
Basie
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In case you explain how you do this normally, I can try to find the way.
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Hi:)
As usual:
Mark a piece of a clip, then Modify- Effect-Gain Select p.e. -6 dB and then Enter! Only the selected piece is affected!
Basie
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Hi again:)
Sorry, Not correct what I have said:(
Is this a bug? When I mark a piece of a clip, not only the selected is operated, the whole clip is affected, that should not be!!!
Have to take a closer look to that....
Basie
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It depends on what you need, that is why I am asking...
If you do not want split clips, I think better approach is to use Clip Gain automation (I am next X2 now, can be a bit different on SPlat):
* vertically zoom the track (to see controls and to simplify correct gain movements)
* select "Clips, Clip Automation, Gain" (in the buttons of track view, next solo/mute/etc) (so you see "Clip Gain" mode in the box where was "Clip")
* select the region you want, right click on automation line, "Add nodes at selection"
* move the line up/down with Ctrl pressed to set required Gain
Advantages:
1) that is the only way I know to mod. the gain in some part of the clip
2) the settings are not permanent, you can easily modify the level later without any extra audio distortion
3) you can always bounce if you want
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I have found the bug, it was introduced during strip parameters changes (input/output and rude solo/mute). Please download 0.4b242.
Thanks for spotting!
thanks for repairing so fast!
because in the meantime, until i noticed the bug, i made changes in the 0.4 version, which i did not want to transfer back to the 0.3 preset.
i also noticed the possibility for defining the default-state, very helpful!
how could we use dependent states?
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I found it --> s_Mode:8Trk Master Volume and changed it to s_Mode:8Trk Bus Volume
and it worked:)
very good! in case you are not aware: you can specify which Bus (<First>,...)
Shift Time-Out! Yes!!! I don't like those finger stretchings....
yes, that was the reason, it´s much more comfortable now.
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Is this a bug? When I mark a piece of a clip, not only the selected is operated, the whole clip is affected, that should not be!!!
Hi Basie,
i´m on X3e and tried that too - for me it´s working as expected, only the selection is affected!
although i wanted to suggest automation too, i can understand why you want to do it that way. for this sort of small edits it´s perhaps the fasted way.
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i´m on X3e and tried that too - for me it´s working as expected, only the selection is affected!
It is interesting... I have tried on X2 under Linux, the whole clip is processed. The same under SPlat. But then I have tried X3e, and it is also processing the whole clip for me! But it is installed next SPlat, so I guess all effects are "upgradet" (bugged?)
In any case, that question is better to discuss on OF. More experts there, may be we forgot some important option...
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i checked that several times, and it always works on the selection - it would not make sense otherwise?
and i don´t think that is an "effect" that is upgraded - this is more some setting (or a bug).
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Hi:)
It was my fault, I took a Loopfile, and for that always the whole clip is gained. Normal Files are working on Selection as expected.
I mixed my las project with X3, so I'm not yet experienced with Platinum, it always took about half a year till I change to the next Version! Now I do!
So it is very fast to work with! "s", "t", "sch" I often gain manually, cause I've never heard a Deesser to work fine.
Thanks!
Basie
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Hi again:)
@MarKo
So I need 6 Knobs for Gain, can I use the Solo Buttons from EQ Mode? Are they different from Track Mode? Or can I use shift or Ctrl Button with them?
Thank you:)
Basie
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So I need 6 Knobs for Gain, can I use the Solo Buttons from EQ Mode? Are they different from Track Mode? Or can I use shift or Ctrl Button with them?
i was already thinking about how you would integrate this best (without cutting other functions).
Yes, Solo buttons in Channel-mode could be used. Although currently they still control Solo (also in Channel-mode) but this is not so important. I use it sometimes, if tweaking e.g. EQ or Comp in Soloed State, and want to quickly un-solo, to hear it together. But anyway, they could be used with Shift or Ctrl.
Disadvantage i see: you have to switch to Channel-mode, and there you are missing Scrubbbing/Shuttle-functions, which would surely be helpful while editing.
I would think/suggest it this way: why 6 buttons? if you have to switch modes, it´s more cumbersome to use, than to have it directly accessible.
What about just 2 Buttons, which do +/-1dB ? To do +3dB is just 3 presses of this button (but without additionally mode-switching). In current layout there is even a very nice free place for this: Ctrl+Bank <>
I think this could be a comfortable way - what do you think?
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What about just 2 Buttons, which do +/-1dB ? To do +3dB is just 3 presses of this button (but without additionally mode-switching).
The processing is destructive, I am almost sure 3x +1dB produce significant distortion compare to 1x +3dB
I propose 2keys + 2modes, I mean something like Shift+Cut (-1), Ctrl+Cut(-2), Shift+Ctrl+Cut (-3) and the same for burst.
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The processing is destructive, I am almost sure 3x +1dB produce significant distortion compare to 1x +3dB
hm, i´m not sure this is true - at least it can not be significant, but we could check and analyze that.
I propose 2keys + 2modes, I mean something like Shift+Cut (-1), Ctrl+Cut(-2), Shift+Ctrl+Cut (-3) and the same for burst.
yes, that would be fine, but currently i see no way of integrating that directly without losing 2 other functions. But it could easily be done in another mode, or use Channel-mode (or ACT) as Basie said. But i would prefer it without mode-switching.
As we are just thinking, i had another idea:
we could have one of the knobs in the bottom-row to select gain-dB(-3 to +3), then we only need 2 button-functions for boost/cut. this could also work quite nice.
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HI:)
6 Knobs are not necessary, -1 and -3 will be enough, so 2 Knobs, perhaps +1 and +3 with shift, the most I use minus instead of plus!
Thanks:)
Basie
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6 Knobs are not necessary, -1 and -3 will be enough, so 2 Knobs, perhaps +1 and +3 with shift, the most I use minus instead of plus!
Ok, another idea, for me this seems like the best until now:
As i have now timeout-states for Shift+Ctrl, we could use double/triple-presses.
That would work like this:
- press/release Ctrl (timeout is activated)
- then press Bank Buttons (directly above) as often as you want +/-dB.
So for -1dB you just press Ctrl, then Bank-. For -2dB you press Ctrl, then 2x Bank-.
The command is executed after not pressing any more, so there is no possible distortion, like Alexey is afraid when doing 3x -1dB.
Would that be ok?
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Hi again:)
What the hell:) Just figure out what you want to do and I care for myself:)
Lovely that you care about me, thank you:)
Don't wanna you to work for me! I love what you have creatit, it's wonderful!!
Basie!
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Hi Basie,
I´m not really sure how this was meant...
So let me explain: i´ve been explicitly asking for additional ideas/wishes, because everybody has different workflow and needs. And first i´ve implemented the basic stuff that i really needed, but then i saw more and more possibilities. So the plan was getting bigger, and i really wanted input from others, because sometimes you don´t think about the obvious. So far, the additional wishes/ideas, which came from you and stevie (thank him for zoom!), were really helpful and inspiring for me.
So even if i know that the special "gain-command" is probably nothing for me, it brought me a big step further, because until now i didn´t think about such stuff (dialog automation).
So this produces really helpful input, which i´m sure i will use elsewhere.
And if you are really sure that you don´t want the "work from me", then you can always delete it ;)
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I think I understand what was the meaning of his statement... and I guess you interpret it incorrectly. But I am (as Russian) is not the right person to explain English sentences 8)
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HI:)
I have to work with it, at the weekend is a recording session which I have to mix immediately, so let me see how it works.....
On Monday I let you know if I need more stuff on the BCR...
Thank you;)
Basie..
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Hi MarKo:)
Here are my additional HotKeys, perhaps you get any Ideas:)
First what I often use is Scale Velocities, the most per cent 90/110, if there's a possibility to increase/decrease per Knob, that would be faster than per Key Command!
So here they are, a few of them are not necessary any more, cause you have the functions on the BCR;)
(Don't wonder on the Letters, I'm working with the German Version of Sonar)
A - Automatic Latency Compensation
O - Tempo
U - Previous Display
Y - All Marked Tracks Solo
PgUp - Fast Backward
PgDn - Fast Forward
Ctrl - B - Smartgrid On/Off
Ctrl - F - Fit all Tracks
Ctrl - J - Normalize
Ctrl - U - Transpose
Ctrl - Y - Hide Marked Tracks
Ctrl - F9 - Select From
Ctrl - F10 - Select To (The Normal Key Commands as written in the Manual have never worked!! F6....)
Ctrl - Pad 0 - Studio Ware Yamaha 03D (To work with my 02r)
Shift - J - Gain
Shift - U - Length
Shift - Y - Piano Roll View
Num Pad
2 - Set Grid to 16th Triad
3 - 8th Triad
4 - 4th
6 - 16th
8 - 8th
That's all! So the Only to work faster is the Velocity Scale, if you can set the Numbers 90 and 110 by AZ Controller...
Thank you very much:)
Basie
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(Don't wonder on the Letters, I'm working with the German Version of Sonar)
Just a small unrelated comment...
You are using German Version of Sonar, MarKo has German keyboard and I am in Heidelberg. I have nothing against using other languages I understand in this forum ;)
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HI azslow3:)
Na denn:) Und ich müh mich hier ab mit meinem SchulEnglisch....
Klar, wenn das für alle besser ist! Dann gibt's auch keine Missverständnisse;)
Bis denne,
Basie
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Hi ihr zwei!
na das macht die Sache doch wesentlich einfacher und unmissverständlicher.
bin aber gerade im Stress und melde mich später noch...
sers,
martin
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Hi nochmal Mann der Bässe,
fein dass man hier auch gleichsprachige trifft.
Damit evtl. Missverständnisse gleich vermieden sind, hier meine Überlegungen von Anfang:
also ich hab AzCtrl zufällig entdeckt, mich ein wenig herumgespielt und erkannt dass das wirklich ein geniales Teil ist, mit dem man offensichtlich wirklich alles umsetzten kann was man immer schon wollte.
Also hab ich begonnen mich tiefer einzugraben und wie du wahrscheinlich mitgelesen hast, einiges gelernt und dann versucht in ein Preset zusammenzubauen.
Wenn man aber kein Vorbild einer existenten Umsetzung hat (ala Mackie) dann gibt´s so unendlich viel Möglichkeiten, dass man am Anfang gar keinen Plan findet - das muss sich erst entwickeln.
Darum wollte ich auch Ideen/Vorstellungen von anderen hören, weil zb. an die Zoom-Geschichten (die super nützlich sind) hab ich noch gar nocht gedacht.
Deine Idee mit dem Gain-ändern war auch neu und interessant, und weil so ähnliche Befehls-Makros durchaus nützlich sein können (jeder braucht auch was anderes) wollte ich das gleich mitbedenken.
Man muss sich da durchaus gröbere Gedanken machen um eine möglichst logische/bequeme Bedienung zu erreichen. Ob ich für mich das dann anders beleg weiß ich zwar noch nicht, aber mein Ziel war ein halbwegs durchdachtes Preset für die BCR bereitzustellen, auch um Alexey vielleicht ein wenig zu supporten. Denn was er in Wirklichkeit fabriziert hat ist genial - hast schon an die Blumen gedacht ;)
Aber die Auflistung der Tasten war mir jetzt nicht ganz klar - das willst doch nicht alles auf BCR-Tasten legen? (und manches gibt´s eh schon)
Jedenfalls wäre das eine Sache, die könnte man dann relativ leicht selbst einbauen/ändern, also einfach die Commandos ändern/ergänzen. Das schwierige ist eher wie man das Basis Layout macht und die Logik mit den States konzipiert. Wenn das mal steht (und das tut es jetzt) dann sind die weiteren Ergänzungen rel. leicht.
Die Velocity-sache sieht aber prinzipiell genauso wie Gain aus, wird also genauso funktionieren.
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Moin moin:)
also ich hab AzCtrl zufällig entdeckt, mich ein wenig herumgespielt und erkannt dass das wirklich ein geniales Teil ist, mit dem man offensichtlich wirklich alles umsetzten kann was man immer schon wollte.
Das ist es, aber man muss sich ordentlich einarbeiten, also vieles ist mir noch unklar, das wird aber noch:)
war ein halbwegs durchdachtes Preset für die BCR bereitzustellen, auch um Alexey vielleicht ein wenig zu supporten. Denn was er in Wirklichkeit fabriziert hat ist genial - hast schon an die Blumen gedacht ;)
Ich würde ja gerne was donaten, aber ich finde keinen Link....
Aber die Auflistung der Tasten war mir jetzt nicht ganz klar - das willst doch nicht alles auf BCR-Tasten legen? (und manches gibt´s eh schon)
Ich dachte das gibt dir vielleicht Ideen, aber wie du sagst, vieles hast du schon auf dem Preset, das find ich klasse, das mit der Velocity wäre noch interessant und den Rest kann man auf den Tasten lassen! Ich arbeite seit jeher sehr viel mit den Tasten, muss mich momentan noch umgewöhnen auf das BCR, aber mit BCR geht halt eben vieles schneller!!!
Ich hab mir jetzt 2 Knöpfe belegt mit dem Gain, aber so wie du das erzählt hast ist das natürlich viel eleganter gelöst, das bring ich noch nicht hin mit AZ Controller! Deshalb kann ich das Neueste Preset kaum erwarten;)
Danke und bis dann,
Heinz.
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Moin,
Ich würde ja gerne was donaten, aber ich finde keinen Link....
bitteschön: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,173.0.html
Ich arbeite seit jeher sehr viel mit den Tasten,
ich auch, aber in letzter Zeit versuche ich editieren und mischen besser zu trennen.
Man verzettelt sich sonst viel zu schnell in Details. Also ich bin entweder an Tastatur/maus und editiere, meistens in der Spuransicht. Oder aber ich bin beim mischen, dann natürlich in der Konsole und mach das meiste mittlerweile mit der BCR.
Ich find dass man sich so VIEL besser auf seine Ohren konzentrieren kann, man ist nicht so von optischen Details abgelenkt und kommt viel schneller/effizienter zu einem brauchbaren Mix. (mag auch daran liegen dass ich noch an echten Konsolen "gelernt" habe).
Darum versuch ich auch nicht unbedingt alle möglichen Tastenkommandos zu belegen, sondern eher das was man beim mischen braucht.
Bei meiner Arbeitsweise hätte ich eher daran gedacht die Gain-sache per Tasten-makro zu erledigen (zb. Autohotkey) das geht vermutlich sogar einfacher.
Trotzdem fand ich das Gain-Bsp. sehr gut und werd es auch so drin lassen.
Deshalb kann ich das Neueste Preset kaum erwarten;)
es ist zwar noch immer einiges zu tun, aber wenn du willst kann ich abends den akt. Stand hochladen, da ist schon wieder einiges verbessert.
gruß aus Wien
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Ich würde ja gerne was donaten, aber ich finde keinen Link....
bitteschön: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,173.0.html
Meine Frau ist jetzt für lange Zeit mit Blümen versorgt, vielen dank!
Diese Action war nicht als permanent gedacht. Ich schlisse es bald aus. Ich habe auch Fotos gemacht. Es gibt keine Galerie mit AZCtrl Bilder, aber die Blumen sind schön. Ich muss die nur bearbeiten und hochladen ;)
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Hi Martin
Finally got out in the studio, I hate it when life gets in the way of things we enjoy :)
Great job on the new preset, love the zoom with the jog and position controller features & eq
For my work flow what would be really nice is if we could split clips at the now position (not sure if this is possible, maybe macro) and then delete between two splits
This way you can start from the end of the song use your position and jog controls to find the end of some silence (unwanted part between vocals) split the clip jog backwards to the beginning of the silence, split clip again (because we have split moving from the end of the song towards the beginning of the song the silent unwanted section is selected between the 2 splits) and then press the delete button (not sure there are any buttons to spare)
Hope this makes sense this is what I do to a track after recording, your zoom and jog tools will already make it so much easier this would just be icing on the cake
Which compressor are you controlling? I cycled through them all and could only get a few controls to work
Also having fun using google translator to try and keep up with yours and Basie's conversations, a couple of years of learning German in high school is not helping much
Thanks for the great work, I too need to make a donation to show my appreciation to Alexey and his great program
Regards Stevie
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Hi Stevie,
Clip editing functions are outside of my control for the moment, I will put it into my todo list right now (to remember).
I have started developing the plug-in with old API. There was no editing functions there (most important, it seems like it is impossible to select clip).
After GIT release of newer API I have notices some additions. But I could not understand what it is all about till I have recently looked into VS-700 code (this part of API by itself is not self explaining and there is zero documentation, the only place it is used is in VS-700). I have understood that some editing functions are exposed to API, most important clip selection.
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@Stevie:
glad that you like it!
Splitting: although it´s not possible with Az-functions, we could try keyboard-simulation. That could work, until Alexey implements those stuff. But i´m not at my BCR at the moment. I consider this a very useful addition and will try. Thanks for the good idea!
compressor: i forgot to mention that.
currently i´m assuming PC76 channel compressor for tracks and bus-comp for busses. unfortunately only a few controls are working if it´s the wrong type. That was already on my todo-list. Sometimes the bus-type makes sense on tracks too.
Did you try to switch types? Also check it on busses please.
@Alexey: can we detect the comp-type?
Also having fun using google translator
i had to try that too with my own posting!
that gave me a really good laugh - ROFL ;D
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Splitting: although it´s not possible with Az-functions, we could try keyboard-simulation.
Up to now, I have not found how to select clip with keyboard as well...
compressor: i forgot to mention that.
currently i´m assuming PC76 channel compressor for tracks and bus-comp for busses. unfortunately only a few controls are working if it´s the wrong type. That was already on my todo-list. Sometimes the bus-type makes sense on tracks too.
Did you try to switch types? Also check it on busses please.
@Alexey: can we detect the comp-type?
AZCtrl logic has nothing to "detect" things... I plan (and the work is ongoing) some new solution (generic) for plug-in control, but it is far away.
At the moment, I "know" about standard PC compressors, which you have mentioned. That is hardcoded (corresponding function in Sonar has a bug and not working, I use workaround to detect which module is which). But within 2 compressors, you can "detect" which one is there:
* Filter PC4K S-Type Bus Compressor shift 0 par 4
* "Selection:Invalid" - Filter PC76 U-Type Compressor shift 0 par 5
What I mean, you try to select some named compressor and in case that fails (it is not found) you try to select another one.
On the other hand, VS-700 use just one mapping (for the Bus compressor) which looks like "compatible" with 76 (it just has 2 more parameters and 2 different parameters, but parameters with the same meaning have the same position).
In case you have other PC Compressors, we can hardcode them as well. In fact I just need:
1) Module name
2) Number of parameters
4) The name of the first and the last parameter (in "natural" order, as seen in the automation list for example).
The problem is that Sonar is not returning names for PC modules...
A good alternative for PC modules/FXes is ACT. With hand crafter XML changes, it works for any module/plug-in.
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HI:)
@MarKo
Ich übe öfters auf Drum Midi Files, ist es möglich auf einem Regler das Tempo zu ändern?? Ich könnte auf den Master oder auf den ganz rechts oben verzichten dafür! Hauptsache ich brauch nur eine Hand um das Tempo zu ändern! Üben muss ich jeden Tag, Mixeln nicht:)
Danke dir:)
Heinz.
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Ich übe öfters auf Drum Midi Files, ist es möglich auf einem Regler das Tempo zu ändern?? Ich könnte auf den Master oder auf den ganz rechts oben verzichten dafür! Hauptsache ich brauch nur eine Hand um das Tempo zu ändern! Üben muss ich jeden Tag, Mixeln nicht:)
Einen einfachen Weg das Tempo zu ändern (mit Tastatur oder Regler) wünschen viele Benutzer seit Jahren.
Das kann man mit dem Dialog auch halbwegs lösen. Ich habe in heutige Test Version eine Modifizierung gemacht welcher das vereinfacht. Ich muss zuerst es noch Zuhause testen.
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I attach an example preset for "Change tempo" endless encoder. It is for the TEST version (0.4r1), it will not work in current release.
Note, there are 2 limitations:
1) There is no way to get current tempo from the project
2) It takes some time to finish the operation, so there is a "Wait" timeout during which it is not possible to do tempo change. Unfortunately, at the moment it is not possible to "finish" the operation after. But for that I have already a plan (will also solve "timer based" operations, discussed before in this thread).
The number (and real values) of possible tempos is easy to change (add/remove/modify corresponding States in the Tempo Set).
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Hi All
Been thinking about how to get around split clips problem, could we use the Edit > Select > From = Now to set the beginning of the selection and then jog to the end and use Edit > Select > From = Thru to set the end? This will select the section of the clip then delete.
It shows keyboard short cuts to use these commands though I could not get them to work
The other problem with this idea is that the jog function does not update the now time even though it it moves the now line on the screen? (I am running an older version of AZ controller if this makes a difference)
Not sure if this is helpful or another dead end :o
Thanks Stevie
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HI:)
@Alexey
Wow that's great!!! I deleted "Wait" and changed the Tempo per Key Num+ x10 (x100 possible?)
2) It takes some time to finish the operation, so there is a "Wait" timeout during which it is not possible to do tempo change. Unfortunately, at the moment it is not possible to "finish" the operation after. But for that I have already a plan (will also solve "timer based" operations, discussed before in this thread).
For me it works without wait and it finishes the function after the change!!!
The Only thing:
How to use Num- ?
But that's exactly what I wanted;) Great work!!!
@Martin
Sorry, but I've mentioned that R5-8 in the Bottom Row (Jog 1,2, Master, POS <>)
in ACT Mode still changes Track Gain 5-8! I don't know how to change it without get loose of the old functions:(
I've done a lot with ACT the last days and Sonars ACT Learn is the hell, as Alexey wrote in reverse order or in chaos order:(
Changed the Numbers in the genericparams.
Sonar set's the Controls one by one, so if you want to just 6 Rotators to work with you have to fill in 2 Blind Lines in the xml file.... the paramname doesn't mather at all! Only the number of the lines is important!!
I use the Pan and Send rows for ACT mainly, so I fill up 16 Lines in the generic.xml and fill out the right numbers only in line 1-6 and 9-14, this works! The last 4 Rs get the unused numbers....works very fine also with the "Mute" Knobs a.s.o.
You said there will be a function to change the focus of the plugins for ACT?? That would be very fine!! Although you can just click on it......
Sorry, that I write in my bad English but I don't want to lock out Stevie from our Conversation:)
Thank you very much;)
Heinz.
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about Tempo:
@Alexey:
for me this working too, it finishes ok!
i will have to experiment with this.
@Heinz:
kannst noch mal genauer beschreiben, wie sich das jetzt bei dir verhält?
ich versteh nämlich nicht wie du jetzt auf +/- kommst, das hat doch da nix verloren?
möglicherweise hab ich auch noch eine alternative Idee...
ich werde dann später mal meinen Stand hochladen, die ACT-Fehler R5-8 hab ich jetzt erst richtig bemerkt - danke für den Hinweis.
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Hi:)
@MarKo
kannst noch mal genauer beschreiben, wie sich das jetzt bei dir verhält?
ich versteh nämlich nicht wie du jetzt auf +/- kommst, das hat doch da nix verloren?
möglicherweise hab ich auch noch eine alternative Idee...
Ich hab dieses Wait gelöscht und den vorhandenen Wert mit Num+ x10 geändert, beim Drehen geht das Tempo dann um 0,1 nach oben, aber wenn ich nach links drehe ist es genauso, es geht nur nach oben verständlicherweise, das Tempo müsste beim Drehen nach links nach unten gehn! Ich weiss aber nicht wie ich den Controller dazu zu bringen wie er das weiss ob ich nqach links oder rechts drehe, vielleicht gehe ich das auch völlig falsch an:)
Heinz.
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The other problem with this idea is that the jog function does not update the now time even though it it moves the now line on the screen?
Hi Stevie,
please wait for the next version (hopefully today), i have this already working.
at least if you are doing it "backwards", like you said before.
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Ich hab dieses Wait gelöscht und den vorhandenen Wert mit Num+ x10 geändert, beim Drehen geht das Tempo dann um 0,1 nach oben, aber wenn ich nach links drehe ist es genauso, es geht nur nach oben verständlicherweise, das Tempo müsste beim Drehen nach links nach unten gehn!
prinzipiell ginge das mit +/- auch, aber da dreht man sich ja irre!
du willst wirklich so fein einstellen? ich dachte eher an schnelle gröbere Änderungen.
aber ich versuch da auch noch was anderes...
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prinzipiell ginge das mit +/- auch, aber da dreht man sich ja irre!
du willst wirklich so fein einstellen? ich dachte eher an schnelle gröbere Änderungen.
Ne natürlich nicht, in 1 er Schritten, vielmehr brauch ich bis Tempo 72 3er Schritte und danach 4er , wie gewöhnlich, also 1er Schritte wären perfekt! Es gab nur kein x100, nur x10, deshalb die 0,1:)
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Hi All
Been thinking about how to get around split clips problem, could we use the Edit > Select > From = Now to set the beginning of the selection and then jog to the end and use Edit > Select > From = Thru to set the end? This will select the section of the clip then delete.
It shows keyboard short cuts to use these commands though I could not get them to work
As you have described, selecting some region in time is not a problem. But how to select the clip? "Select-from/thru" does not select it for me. But I do not think it will take long time till I implement "ClipEdit" action with CW API from VS-700.
The other problem with this idea is that the jog function does not update the now time even though it it moves the now line on the screen? (I am running an older version of AZ controller if this makes a difference)
Not sure I understand you. If I Jog somewhere and then use play, it starts playing from the point the time line is shown.
But if you mean clip editing operations, it looks like they use some other "edit now time" according to the "ClipEdit" API. What they do is a bit cryptic, even for me. But we will find the way.
Not sure if this is helpful or another dead end :o
Thanks Stevie
There was many times I and other thought "the is a dead end...". For example some way to detect which strip type (track or bus) is currently selected by user. And at some lucky moment the solution could be found (with that example, by a bug in my test code which was thought for different purpose) :)
HI:)
@Alexey
Wow that's great!!! I deleted "Wait" and changed the Tempo per Key Num+ x10 (x100 possible?)
2) It takes some time to finish the operation, so there is a "Wait" timeout during which it is not possible to do tempo change. Unfortunately, at the moment it is not possible to "finish" the operation after. But for that I have already a plan (will also solve "timer based" operations, discussed before in this thread).
For me it works without wait and it finishes the function after the change!!!
I will add x100. Nice found! So it really change the tempo from the point it currently is!
With "Wait" is is no so easy... I have already noticed "side effects" in case it is not there, even in your modified "+-" version. When you turn encoder without that "protection", it send "+-" and "Enter" to other Sonar parts (currently in focus). May be on fast computer you can reduce that "dead time" timeout, but not to 0.
The Only thing:
How to use Num- ?
You will need "Encoder direction" mapping (mapping from encoder value to 2 States ("Left"/"Right") Set ("Direction").
I attach an example with +- and the smallest "Wait" which still work fine (without side effects) for me.
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Ich hab dieses Wait gelöscht und den vorhandenen Wert mit Num+ x10 geändert, beim Drehen geht das Tempo dann um 0,1 nach oben, aber wenn ich nach links drehe ist es genauso, es geht nur nach oben verständlicherweise, das Tempo müsste beim Drehen nach links nach unten gehn!
prinzipiell ginge das mit +/- auch, aber da dreht man sich ja irre!
du willst wirklich so fein einstellen? ich dachte eher an schnelle gröbere Änderungen.
aber ich versuch da auch noch was anderes...
Rein theoretisch... Ich kann "Ctrl+C" machen, dann Windows Ablage als Zahl benutzen und so aktuelle Tempo erkennen...
Oder versuchen den Text von Windows aktuelle Steuerelement direkt abfragen :D
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I attach an example with +- and the smallest "Wait" which still work fine (without side effects) for me.
That works quite good for me too!
What i don´t like so much is this flickering, because Sonar really updates tempo for every tick of the controller. Also i can see side effects when turning the knob really excessive.
Therefor i tried it like in attachement.
- so first open dialog and set state.
- while in the state "TempoDialog" use endless for Num+/-
- after timeout (knob don´t used for 1 sec) send enter
Too bad that keyboard-action is not allowed in feedback :( i had forgotten that again.
So currently i have to use a button to send the enter when finished.
But i think it would look nicer this way - also you can see the tempo-values, which is not easy with the flicker-dialog.
What do you both think?
@Alexey: i know you have reasons for limited feedback-actions, but is it much work to try it just with this keyboard action? i mean: are the other actions just "hidden" or do you have a lot of programming for just experimenting if this works?
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Therefor i tried it like in attachement.
ok, here now with attachement
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@Alexey: i know you have reasons for limited feedback-actions, but is it much work to try it just with this keyboard action? i mean: are the other actions just "hidden" or do you have a lot of programming for just experimenting if this works?
I can allow almost all actions in monitors and that is easy change. But what is there will be there (I mean the plug-in is backward compatible since the first version...). And I seriously dislike the idea, for explained reason (it is really too easy to hang sonar then, unattended, without any control touched, without any visualization, so extremely hard to debug... just to find that the preset creator has made the mistake and so it is a "feature" and not a bug. Do you think some small extra possibilities justify such scenario?
But as I wrote, I have an idea how to solve that in more elegant and safer way: the "Trigger" action. It will allow to do the same as "Play" button for the Action List with a possibility to control which value should be on input.
The differences/advantages between "Timer once" monitor and "Trigger" will be:
1) "Trigger" will be executed in the Logic context, so with the same rules as normal control (all actions available)
2) The result is shown in the UI, like from "real" control operation. I can not show all Monitors executions, think about 100s of monitors executed 13 times per second... But when you see "Trigger"ed execution in a loop, you know you have a bug.
3) It keeps the logical complexity of "monitor preparation/execution environments" (which is already a rocket since for non programmers...) from growing.
4) Monitors are there for monitoring and not for "performing". Sonar API also distinguish between "Incoming event" (when logical controls are called) and "Idle timer" (when monitors are called), that is good and has its reasons. I will execute the "Trigger" still in the "Idle timer", but from conceptual point of view it still looks consequent for me (unlike mixing different logical tasks into one "thing").
Sure, "Trigger" action will be available in the Monitors.
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Too bad that keyboard-action is not allowed in feedback :( i had forgotten that again.
So currently i have to use a button to send the enter when finished.
But i think it would look nicer this way - also you can see the tempo-values, which is not easy with the flicker-dialog.
What do you both think?
It is better to see what tempo it is, but what's with "Enter" ? When I add Key Enter, uuuuh :)
To which Rotator will you add this function?? do you really need two Jogs?? You need the Master R! there are not a lot possibilities....:) Zoom and Position is to usefull, so ......don't know..
Heinz.
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@Martin
Hi Stevie,
please wait for the next version (hopefully today), i have this already working.
at least if you are doing it "backwards", like you said before.
Sounds good
@Alexey
As you have described, selecting some region in time is not a problem. But how to select the clip? "Select-from/thru" does not select it for me. But I do not think it will take long time till I implement "ClipEdit" action with CW API from VS-700.
I have found this method of using the keyboard to select in clips and move from one clip to another and seems to focus on the clip that is you can delete the selection
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Arranging.64.html
Maybe helpful?
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Hi Stevie,
I have found this method of using the keyboard to select in clips...
That´s exacatly what i´m using.
But it was quite tricky to find a way of reliably selecting the *specific* clip!
i spent quite some time getting this to work in combination. But i think it´s ok now - you will see.
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Hi Martin
That´s exacatly what i´m using.
But it was quite tricky to find a way of reliably selecting the *specific* clip!
i spent quite some time getting this to work in combination. But i think it´s ok now - you will see.
You are one step ahead of me :)
Trying my hardest to help where I can
Thanks again for your effort
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Hi Heinz,
It is better to see what tempo it is, but what's with "Enter" ? When I add Key Enter, uuuuh :)
it was just an example. as i said, we would need to use some button for enter at the moment.
i want to do this automatically per timeout, but thats currently not possible (but i think that Alexey already has a good plan for this).
i would prefer this 2nd solution because:
- no flickering and better to see the tempo
- it´s much faster if you have to make a big tempochange (no waits and no unnecessary work from Sonar)
- the Undo-History stays ok, which gets flodded with tempochanges otherwise
To which Rotator will you add this function?? do you really need two Jogs?? You need the Master R! there are not a lot possibilities....:) Zoom and Position is to usefull, so ......don't know..
no need for the second Jog - it´s already gone.
i´m thinking about putting it on the "Pos" Knob, because it´s next to the buttons.
Switching with Shift+Pos to "TempoMode", then adjusting tempo with Pos, and when finished use e.g. Stop-button (it´s directly next) for Enter.
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no need for the second Jog - it´s already gone.
i´m thinking about putting it on the "Pos" Knob, because it´s next to the buttons.
Switching with Shift+Pos to "TempoMode", then adjusting tempo with Pos, and when finished use e.g. Stop-button (it´s directly next) for Enter.
Very good Idea:)
Sodele, seid mir nicht böse, aber ich begeb mich jetzt in den Mostkeller! Die Hitze ist nicht mehr zu ertragen:(
Ich komm erst wieder hoch, wenn ich nichts mehr spüre;) Ne Quatsch, die Reaktion meiner Frau würde ich nicht überleben:)
Aber ich bleib ne Weile...
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I have found this method of using the keyboard to select in clips and move from one clip to another and seems to focus on the clip that is you can delete the selection
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Arranging.64.html
Maybe helpful?
Yes, it is! At least for me. I have somehow overlooked that. I understand Edit API now, in fact they change have exposed all that functionality to Control Surfaces... So, theoretically, the same can be done with keys. But API is a bit more stable solution (it can return which current mode is active, etc).
Die Hitze ist nicht mehr zu ertragen:(
40 degree outside, 33 inside...