AZSlow
AZ Controller plug-in for Cakewalk SONAR => Discussions => Topic started by: BuleriaChk on November 27, 2016, 09:26:35 PM
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Here's a basic preset for the UC-33e "AZ IC-33e"; 8 tracks, Volume and Pan, Start, Stop,<<, >>
It works very nicely along with my Frontier Tranzport..
(There are upper rows of knobs, and nine buttons; I programmed the center button on the bottom row for "Record", but am still not sure if it does anything. I'm new at this, so further recommendations, enhancements will be welcome, but it is a start.
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Here's an updated version of my preset for the UC-33e. In addition to the controls on my previous posts:
Tracks 1-9
Top row of rotaries: Track Gain
In my project I created 2 buses
Second row of Rotaries, Tracks 1,2,3,7 8: Send Levels
(Tracks 4,5,6 are Midi Tracks. I may change these all to audio tracks in a further update)
Also, the Master volume fader now works.
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Here's a preset with all Audio tracks (so all the sends are defined. I used Midi learn to define those not n the generic startup preset of Az's....
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I tried to upload the Sonar project file, but the forum wouldn't let me upload a .cwp file. I'll figure out an alternative and get back...
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One obvious use of the nine buttons would be to select (8 tracks + the master bus) for focus, but I don't know how to grab the Midi of that function in Sonar (i.e., a control for Midi Learn). Any ideas from anyone?
Or other use for the buttons? Possibly mute + shift/Solo?
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First of all, thank you for giving my plug-in a chance.
I would like to help you with UC-33 preset creation. But we should be initially systematic then. I can modify your preset to make control names correspond to UC-33 labeling, including all assignable elements (the explanation below). Then you "Assign" what is not yet assigned (the rest of knobs and buttons). After that I can put the functionality you like on all these controls, including "Shift"("Alt", "Ctrl")+Button (also for transport), etc. Is that procedure sounds reasonable for you?
Why Sonar MIDI learn is a bad idea:
1) it is project specific
2) there is no tools to see all assignments
3) MIDI can LEAK to softsynth (Sonar bug). F.e. you assign some Knob to Pan. Everything works as expected. Then at some unfortunate moment, you turn it left and the sound from your backing track "disappears". I was very annoyed when I hit that the first time... Since then I do not use direct Sonar MIDI learn (but it is ok to use MIDI learn inside Synth).
Why it is good idea to assign all possible elements to Control Surface, even if you have no meaningful use cases for them:
the same as (3). If a control is not assigned, it is "leaking" as normal MIDI.
Assigning sends is possible in AZ Controller. All controls can be used with "banks"/"shifts"/"modes", there can be arbitrary number of them. Startup preset you have generated has 3 modes and 2 banks for ACT mode already. F.e. I can define 2 banks for sends, so per strip knobs control "Pan"+"Send1"+"Send2" in the first bank and "Pan"+"Send3"+"Send4" in the second.
I mean I can adopt UC-33 for your personal needs.
Since UC-33 has normal knobs, when you change the parameter they control you are normally forced to catch new current value. AZ Controller supports 2 approaches to avoid that: "Instant" knob operations, and "Endless imitation" operations, also with different response curves. I definitively prefer to adjust a level immediately when I move a fader without guessing what the volume is set currently (especially when I do not have the monitor in the front of me), even with the consequence of "worse resolution" then usual.
From what I know, that is almost unique feature. And there was some "learning time" for me when I have started to use it myself, but it was short.
There are many features which not exist in the "standard" Sonar controllers, if at all. For example an audition using Windows Audio. Originally added for blind users, it can be useful in all other cases when you do not want to look at monitor (even when you physically can). My personal "favorites" are track name on selection and marker when now time approach it.
So just let me know if you agree with the proposal and I create/upload the initial preset for subsequent mapping.
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Hi, Az (I don't know your name... :)
Of course, I'll help out for the UC-33e, in my experience, Sonar was the reason I purchased both the Tranzport and the UC; I'm sure there are others as well. I have no loyalty to "Midi Learn" for all the reasons you state, but I was delighted your program got me this far. Some of the cases were not included in your "Generic" list, so I had to add those, and use Midi Learn to get them to work.
From my own perspective, I realize now that my needs for audio are very simple for now. Two tracks, an audio track and a backing track, for which I can use my Tranzport (since the backing tracks are already in Maschine, which I use as a VST plug-in in Sonar. (All these discoveries are really recent; like yesterday.. :)
So - current state is the last preset I uploaded; Track volumes and Pan were included in your generic model, Track Gain, Sends, and transport all had to be Midi Learned (as I remember). The nine buttons have not been assigned; one obvious solution would be mute/solo for all eight tracks with the ninth button a shift button used to select the mode (which are the main "bread and butter" elements the UC-33 is missing). You can implement the extra two rows of rotaries for two send tracks, rather that Gain/send; for me, gain/send makes a bit more sense, since I would probably never need more than one send channel (again, I can do much work in Maschine)...
So let me know what you want me to do. I have a UC-33e, so can be a tester for the presets you write (once written, once I figure out what you did, I can write changes without Midi Learn.
Another device I'm thinking of is the Akai MidiMix, which is a great alternative, and I might get one just for portability. If you say the word, I'll order one and we can work on that one as well for other desperate users wanting to make Sonar useable in real live...
Best Regards, and thanks again for your program; I'm glad I finally tried it after being so unbelievably frustrated with ACT (and that nativeKontrol Studio, which has serious driver problems I don't have time for.)
Chuck
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Just that you do not think I am disappeared ;)
The preset in question is in progress, I hope to be ready tomorrow. When I create new presets, I try new ideas, check things... and sometimes the code modification is required. And that slow down things. But for today, the code change is down. And the preset already looks promising:
* Gain/ Send 1 / Pan + Volume on faders for 8 tracks + 1 bus
* transport with "combinations":
- "Stop" alone - stop, when used with other buttons - shift
- "Play" alone - "Play/Pause", with "Stop" - Record, "Stop"+"Record"+Numberic - Record arm the track in question
- "<<" - rewind, with "Stop" - RTZ
- ">>" - fast forward, with "Stop" - to the last event in the project
- Num 1-9 without mods - "Mute", with "Stop" - "Solo", with "Stop"+"Play" - record arm, "Command" ( button "0" ) - some commands, like showing display, change fader/knob value setting mode (as I have mentioned there are several, so you will be able to try), save project (most are undefined yet)
Also "Display" will show all current assignments and values. In the future, we can "teleport" it to your tablet (I have seen you have already tried MCU emulation, that means you have one). This way, UC33+Tablet can act like a "modern" surface with build-in display!
For "new surface hardware": for controlling Sonar (with AZ controller), the best choice is something with ENCODERS instead of Knobs. You will have "feedback" then and you do not need to "catch" the value first. Motor faders is up to you, if you do not want to mix "professional way" (and with 2 tracks you probably do not), there are only limited benefits (like overwriting automations). Note, the controller should be MIDI (EUCON / Avid devices are not supported by AZ Controller, the protocol is unknown to me).
As for guitar player, may be it worse to look at some foot MIDI controller: play/stop/record, change the volume (if there is a continuous pedal), with AZ Controller even 3 "buttons" can be smart.
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Wow, I'm just a tiny grasshopper... :) Great Work, there will be a LOT of users very grateful. There are a ton of UC-33e's out there, many bought for the express purpose of controlling Cakewalk (as it was called then).
I just purchased a Launch Control XL - I found a basic preset for Launch Control on your forum. I can use it with Live, with the Push 2 acting as an instrument... (I think); I'll find out when it gets here
(Edit: I decided to hold off on actually purchasing the LC XL - there may be better alternatives. Maybe just the Launch Control which you have already done. But the LC XL would be far more complete...)
Do you have one for the Pro EQ of Sonar? That way I could completely control the Pro Eq using the LC XL, and transport functions with the Tranzport (or UC-33, or V-Control Pro)..
(Even better, the full Pro Channel... :) Maybe in User mode.
E,g.:http://forum.cakewalk.com/Anyone-using-a-Novation-Launch-Control-MIDI-Controller-with-Sonar-m3331726.aspx (http://forum.cakewalk.com/Anyone-using-a-Novation-Launch-Control-MIDI-Controller-with-Sonar-m3331726.aspx)
(picture about halfway down)
This is all very, very encouraging. Back to practice so I can get the basic audio recordings down in Sonar!!!
(Actually, I don't have an MCU; my only contact is using your mackiecontrol.dll)
Edit: Oops, I do have a tablet... an iPad air :) My bad!
That said, why not a full blown graphic of the Sonar interface on the tablet to sync with the LP XL? (Dunno if that could work, but...)
Tell you what: If you'll support the Launch Control XL for Sonar, I'll send you my UC-33e as compensation (for that and all the other stuff you do). You can keep it for yourself or give it to a friend, or whatever - I won't need it anymore... In any case, with your plug in it will be way more valuable to whoever winds up with it ...
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Edit: Even Better: I'll just sell it on EBay or Reverb and send you the money! (It will be even easier to sell with the preset available!)
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Not only that, the Launch Control XL will all of a sudden become very useful... :)
Update: I hadn't thought about the BCR2000 br9.07.spp file - is the BCR2000 a viable alternative?
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Please give us several days to organize UC-33 first. You will have more information to decide which controller you need then.
From Sonar perspective, LC XL is almost the same as UC-33, except some "light" coming out of it.
The preset you have seen for normal LC is dedicated to ProChannel ONLY. All depends on personal needs, f.e. we can configure big part of UC-33 to work with ProChannel (or other FXes of your choice) by reducing the number of simultaneously controllable strips.
BCR2000 has huge advantage. All knobs are encoders. That means you can instantly switch what they control without the need to catch another values. Also Martin know very well what he is doing.
I am limited from two sides: by the hardware implementation (if there is no LEDs on surface I can not make it light, if there is a knob I can make only "bad" encoder out of it) and by Sonar (if something is not exposed to Control Surfaces, in most cases I am unable to control that). But between these limits, almost everything is possible. I mean there is no difference between what MCU Pro, UC-33 or any other surface can do with Sonar.
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Ok, I'll hold off on everything until we see what we (you) can do with the UC-33e..
It already works beyond my wildest dreams .... :)
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Now its your turn.
Please install the latest test version of AZ Controller, v0.5r3b345, direct download link: http://www.azslow.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=28
Current release can also work with the preset, but there will be some inconsistencies in display if you add sends, rename tracks, etc.
What it does in general I have already described, that is a first "draft", we can change everything later.
There are no assignments in this preset, so please assign correct MIDI to all controls with names without underscore "_". Also please try to avoid "Detach" button (I have seen that in your presets). In case of mistakes, use "Forget MIDI" for the control.
I have labeled controls as on the device, so the top left knob is "Knob 25". I also assume that "+" and "-" buttons are also generating MIDI. Please let me know if they are device internal.
Once everything is assigned, please check that it works. Visit "Options" Tab and press "Show/Hide" button in the display section. AZ Display should appear, with UC33 layout. It is not graphically "modern", but at least you can change font and colors in the "Display"/"Configure" dialog.
"Stop", "Play" (when pressed after "Stop") and "0" and "modifier" keys. You can see on the display what other buttons do when particular modifier is pressed.
Independent from the bugs you probably find in the preset, please upload it with all controls mapped so I can continue with that version.
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Ok, I'm not sure what is involved, but will give it a try (I am still really new at this)
I've installed the new version of AZSlow and V-Control still works, so that is a good initial sign :)
Now for UC33.spp - we'll see what happens .. I so new at this I still don't understand the procedures, but I'll give it my best shot...
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Progress so far -----------------
1. Faders Tracks 1 - 8 assigned
2. Master Fader assigned to Fader 33
3. Transport (Start/Stop, FF, Rew) assigned
4. Buttons 1-9 assigned
5. Knob 0 assigned (between + and -)
Faders, Mute/Solo, Transport functions working properly.
(no knobs assigned yet because 1-9 not available in the list)
Issues:
1. Num -,+, knobs : cannot assign (delete and try again?) Only come up with option to Detach.
Do not respond to last midi event. (I tried several things; new context, detach/attach - only on Num -). if wrong, my bad, sorry - didn't read your post thoroughly enough.
2. I don't see Knob 1-9 in the list (Pan?)
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Do I use Midi learn with these elements? New Context?
Looking at the display, everything works other than marker left/command/marker right and the knobs....
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Attached is the modified version (from user/AppData/Roaming/Cakewalk/Shared Presets/(75....)
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Ok, I'm not sure what is involved, but will give it a try (I am still really new at this)
I've installed the new version of AZSlow and V-Control still works, so that is a good initial sign :)
Now for UC33.spp - we'll see what happens .. I so new at this I still don't understand the procedures, but I'll give it my best shot...
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Update: I copied UC33.spp into the Cakewalk/Roaming folder/(75....) but it doesn't appear in the choices under presets... By now I have a number of presets starting with "AZ" is one of them the "UC33" preset?
Never mind; I just realized I had forgotten to import the preset.. I see it now
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Yes, you do not have to copy it into specific location. Just "Import..." from the Cakewalk Plug-in Manager. I have thought you know that because you have "Export..."ed your presets. My bad.
Ok, I assigned faders 1-8 without issue. I assume that fader 33 is the master fader, but don't want to do anything until I hear from you again. Then there are a whole bunch of knobs, and I was going to start assigning rotaries, but there is no "knob 1", so am really confused about which knob, etc. goes with which control. I looked in the UC-33 user manual, but it didn't tell me much about your scheme...
I have used a picture like http://media.musiciansfriend.com/is/image/MMGS7/UC-33e-Desktop-MIDI-Control-Workstation/701523000000000-00-500x500.jpg
There are numbers near knobs, so the upper left is "Knob 25" (as I have mentioned in the previous post). Does your controller looks different?
Issues:
1. Num -,+, knobs : cannot assign (delete and try again?) Only come up with option to Detach.
Do not respond to last midi event. (I tried several things; new context, detach/attach.. if wrong, my bad, sorry - didn't read your post thoroughly enough.
If you do not see new messages in the "Last MIDI Event", that means these buttons are not sending anything. Not a problem. We just have 2 buttons less.
But please... do not do any "Detach/Attach" (as I have explicitly warned you...), nor "New context" or anything I do not mention explicitly (like "Display"). We (programmers) know that the worse thing you can do to your colleague is to put one white space " " character into his code when he is away for coffee. It can take several days (and nights) till he realize that 8)
2. I don't see Knob 1-9 in the list (Pan?)
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Do I use Midi learn with these elements?
Using the numbers near knobs, if you for some reason do not have them, please point me to correct picture.
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I just figured that out before I read your post ... silly me.
Hang on--
Ok, I've attached the new version; I think everything works... except - and + buttons as mentioned earlier (no Midi response).
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Ok, that looks reasonable. Except "Knob 22", which has no MIDI assignment.
Also I will be surprised if everything works. Have you opened the display? It should be possible also from UC33, with "0"(as Command modifier)+"1".
Also please try different modes for faders ("0" + "1") and knobs ("0" + "2"). The difference between "Catch and Instant" you can notice if you "desync" the parameter, for example move fader inside Sonar and then control it from UC33. It works quite bad if the difference between the parameter and the fader is big, but I like it when parameters in question are not far away. The third mode has different response curve, in the middle the control is more precise that at the beginning/end. And the forth mode imitate endless encoders. Hard to explain, but you probably understand when you try to use it.
Finally, let me know which changes you want . For example if you want sacrifice 4 right strips to control ProChannel EQ for current strip. Reverse Mute/Solo. Add some commands in command mode. Anything from theoretically possible list. We have "lost" 2 buttons, so probably you want something to switch track focus, change strips under control (in case you have more then 8 ). Unlike NativeKontrol, I do not have "perfect layout for..." bricks. It is up to you to decide which control does what under which conditions. May be too much freedom, I know. But I was born in the USSR, I prefer too much over too little of it ;)
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Ok, I think I fixed knob 22 (it looked like it was working in the previous version... but anyway, check the new version..
Display works (0 + 1)
Is it possible to do banks? (bank 1 would be current setup, bank 2 would be ProChannel, bank 3.. etc. Not at all sure how that would work, conceivably use a control + pad ; I'm still new at this, and already this is way more than I expected....
Perhaps I could save the preset under a different name (say "ProChannel"), and configure from there.... that would be fine for me, I wouldn't need to change tracks while using ProChannel for my guitar track (all the Midi tracks can be done from inside Maschine)... and actually, I would probably use Maschine effects on the guitar track as well, since any arrangement there would be useable under Live. So maybe I don't need anything more for now....
Still, the bank idea would be the most flexible for other users. with automatic track selection depending on focus (even if it has to be done with a mouse...).. just throwing stuff out there, though. I am very happy with pan, volume,send and not even sure if I need gain at all...
Anyway, I'll give it a bit more thought - I still don't understand everything yet...
There are 12 buttons at the top (three rows of four buttons). Are they accessible? Or internal?
Russian saying (around the time of Stalingrad): "Life is hard...but short".... :)
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Ok, I think I fixed knob 22 (it looked like it was working in the previous version... but anyway, check the new version..
Sorry, but something is still wrong... now "Knob 21" is not assigned and other knobs in this row are shifted compare to your last attachment. If you are willing to correct that, please use this preset. It is an "extension" to the previous, there is no reason to use both.
Is it possible to do banks? (bank 1 would be current setup, bank 2 would be ProChannel, bank 3.. etc. Not at all sure how that would work, conceivably use a control + pad ; I'm still new at this, and already this is way more than I expected....
Sure that is possible! Unlimited number of banks!
Since you have mentioned ProChannel: in the attached preset "0"+"5" switch to ProChannel EQ+Compressor mode (and back to Mix).
Perhaps I could save the preset under a different name (say "ProChannel"), and configure from there.... that would be fine for me, I wouldn't need to change tracks while using ProChannel for my guitar track (all the Midi tracks can be done from inside Maschine)... and actually, I would probably use Maschine effects on the guitar track as well, since any arrangement there would be useable under Live. So maybe I don't need anything more for now....
One preset with banks is simpler to use.
Still, the bank idea would be the most flexible for other users. with automatic track selection depending on focus (even if it has to be done with a mouse...).. just throwing stuff out there, though. I am very happy with pan, volume,send and not even sure if I need gain at all...
ProChannel mode works with automatic track selection (not for buses at the moment, but as you can probably guess that is also possible if you want).
Using nativeKontrol lexicon, if they have Arsenal, AZ Controller is a battle UFO. You can "win" against any enemy... after finishing "UFO pilot training" and "UFO engineer training" ;)
In general, do not thing much about "other users". AZ Controller is an "exclusive" framework, everyone can get exactly what he/she wants. I do not think you will put some Rap song on a Flamenco CD because of "other users".
There are 12 buttons at the top (three rows of four buttons). Are they accessible? Or internal?
I think there are internal. But only you can check that. If something produce distinct MIDI message (in the Last MIDI Event), it can be used in presets.
But WARNING: using these buttons you can modify UC33 hardware assignments for individual controls and change hardware presets!
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I assume ProChannel for the track in focus. It is 3 am here in SB; I'll get to it in the morning after I sleep a bit... :)
(I don't know why the knobs changed like that - they were all working here, and I took care in assigning them again. But if they are corrected, thanks!)
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I assume ProChannel for the track in focus. It is 3 am here in SB; I'll get to it in the morning after I sleep a bit... :)
(I don't know why the knobs changed like that - they were all working here, and I took care in assigning them again. But if they are corrected, thanks!)
It can be some bug with assignments, I have not observed that before. I have not corrected anything, so you can compare new preset with your previous one, watching the difference in the second row of knobs. I have not corrected assignments because I do not know what is "right".
But first of all, have a nice sleep ;)
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Hi Az,
I think I fixed the fader issue in the Mix section. Test it out and see, I have attached the new preset to this post.
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I tested your new preset; first off, migod! you have done a wonderfull first crack at the very complex mode of the ProChannel. What a great start!!
Here are some observations:
I am not sure the mute/solo functions are necessary in any of the ProChannel modes (since one would assume the track would be enabled when making adjustments). The mute and solo could be set in the Mix section before entering the EQ sections, and the pads could be used for Compressor/EQ/Tube functions.
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I would suggest putting the EQ in a bank all by itself, and possibly the Compressor and Tube functions in the same (separate from EQ) bank if there is room for both with controls arranged logically (that way you can use the pads and rotors for each, and keep the faders and bottom row of rotors for track volume/pan for each module.
Maybe cycle through with clicks of the 5 pad... Mixer ->Prochannel (Compressor) -> Prochannel (Eq) -> Prochannel (Tube) -> Mixer
or if possible:
Mixer -> Prochannel (Compressor/Tube) -> Prochannel (Eq) -> Mixer
That is the order of the Prochannel Module, functionally it might be better to cycle:
Mixer -> Prochannel (Eq) -> Prochannel (Compressor/Tube) -> Mixer
(I dunno... :) Maybe provide both in separate presets so user could decide on workflow ....
If it is not possible to arrange controls logically for Compressor and Tube in the same bank, then a separate one for each, always keeping the volume/pan functionality if possible.
I think separate banks are more important to have controls arranged logically, and Compression and Tube modules perform similar functions, so if logical order can be preserved in one bank, great, but if not, I would prefer a separate bank for each, even at the expense of lots of empty controls.....
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Ok , here's what I notice:
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Compressor Section
(Uses faders; should use knobs)
Enable should be a pad)
Put Output in line with other controls if possible
Ratio - F7 should be rotor
Output F8 should be rotor
Dry/Wet F9 should be rotor
HP Slope is not coordinated in the Compresser section since it is R 29;
Missing Function
expand/contact (pad) ????
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Eq Section
R29 is currently HP Slope in Tube section
Missing Controls
Expand/Contract (pad) ???
Lo Shelf Enable (Pad)
Hi Shelf Enable (Pad)
HP Freq (Rotor)
LP Slope (Rotor)
LP Freq (Rotor)
HP Enable (Pad)
Gloss (Pad)
LP Enable (Pad)
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Tube Section
Tube Section is missing
Missing functions:
Expand/Contract (Pad) ???
Enable (Pad)
Input (Rotor)
Drive(Rotor)
Output (Rotor)
Type (Pad)
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I think with this configuration, the UC33e will be a MONSTER controller for Sonar....
(it will be very difficult to find a used one on EBay... :)
These are just suggestions; you have done great work!
let me know what you think; I am just a tiny grasshopper.... :)
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Thanks for the suggestions.
Unfortunately I am a bit busy, will try to implement tomorrow, but can happened that will be done Monday (for tomorrow some REAL work... also drum lessons and helping friends to configure home music system, Saturday friends are coming, today I have finally finished making a shelf for notes/scores to put over my DP ;) )
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Don't feel rushed; I've been waiting for a decade to use my UC33e with Sonar ...... :)
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For the EQ module in Pro channel, you might have to sacrifice the pan pots to get enough controls ....
I think it would be best to leave the volume faders if that is at all possible...
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"Knob 21" is still somehow not assigned...
I put "Eq" on separate "bank" from "Compresoor and Tube". Switch functions moved to the buttons section (while for me leaving mute/solo sounds more practical then leaving the volume on faders).
"Collapse" is not possible, Sonar does not expose that and so nothing I can change.
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Are you sure? Maybe I sent you the wrong one. Knob 21 looks like all the others (and is assigned, as far as I can tell)
Update: It looks like I did send you the wrong one - 21 is broken in the one you just sent me. It is not broken in the one I just sent you... :)
Your program is awesome and getting better by the second.. Once I see how you've assigned banks, etc, is it possible for me to create my own interfaces from scratch?
(I haven't had time to look at the new version - back on that shortly)
Update: Wow! That is just incredible, and extremely useful. Let me know your email so I can send you something via Paypal or other ...
Aside from Knob 21 (now fixed - will upload fixed version in a moment, attached to next post) :) I am a VERY happy camper!!
(Might be interesting to implement Launchpad / Launchpad Pro integrated with the matrix, since they have user modes that expose their MIDI. I bet you'd get a LOT of response from that. Same with Push 2)
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Here is your most recent version with Knob 21 fixed (I think.. but who knows?)
I just discovered it takes two clicks with the "1" button to bring up the display. Very Logical (silly me!)
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(Might be interesting to implement Launchpad / Launchpad Pro integrated with the matrix, since they have user modes that expose their MIDI. I bet you'd get a LOT of response from that. Same with Push 2)
The Matrix is not under Control Surface control in Sonar... The only thing AZ Controller can do for it is BLOCK all Matrix assigned messages from leaking into MIDI tracks. Without this feature, the Matrix is almost useless with controllers (too easy to destroy your sound), so the feature is important, but compare to other AZ Controller activity is "not serious" ;)
Here is your most recent version with Knob 21 fixed (I think.. but who knows?)
I will check later, I have to go now...
I just discovered it takes two clicks with the "1" button to bring up the display. Very Logical (silly me!)
That should not happened. Either my bug or the button is in "switch" mode on UC33. How many clicks required to change Mute on channel 1?
You will be surprised, but AZ Controller users can be counted on fingers. In reality only several people really want control surfaces working in Sonar. By far more people just like COMPLAIN on the forum they are not working, as soon as they notice they are, they disappear.
Other still continue to complain that "this particular feature" is not working, or "I do not want to use any 3d party software for that" (not answering on the question which VSTs they are using every day).
Cakewalk was "ignoring" Control Surface functionality for years not because they can not make it working, but because the number of end users interested. Roland has tried : A-Pro keyboards with VS-20,100,700 controllers. The result you know: production was stopped and Cakewalk was sold.
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Possibilities: A separate bank for just channel controls
For the channel strip, there should be a bank for strip controls not as often used:
(per Channel Strip):
Gain (R)
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Pre/Post (pad)
Global On/Off (pad) (Audio Engine Reset)
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Bypass Effects rack (pad)
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Sends Enable (Pad)
Post (pad)
Level (R)
Pan (Pad)
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Interleave (Stereo) (Pad)
Phase (Pad)
Read enable (Pad)
Write enable (Pad)
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Mute (pad)
Solo (Pad)
Record (pad)
Input Echo (Pad)
Pan (R)
Volume (Fader)
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3 Rotors
14 pads
1 fader
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Just an extra button bank in mix mode for the extra buttons?)
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That's because I was in Mix mode.
1 (pad 1) button click is Mute off/on
with command held down -
2 (pad 1) button clicks is display on/0ff
Logical to me, I just have to remember it...
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Roland shouldn't have included audio interfaces in their controllers. Others do it much better, IMO...
But that was then, and this is now... :)
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(Might be interesting to implement Launchpad / Launchpad Pro integrated with the matrix, since they have user modes that expose their MIDI. I bet you'd get a LOT of response from that. Same with Push 2)
The Matrix is not under Control Surface control in Sonar... The only thing AZ Controller can do for it is BLOCK all Matrix assigned messages from leaking into MIDI tracks. Without this feature, the Matrix is almost useless with controllers (too easy to destroy your sound), so the feature is important, but compare to other AZ Controller activity is "not serious" ;)
I remember now; that is another reason I flat gave up on Cakewalk. Ableton Live was just too sexy for launching clips (using elastic audio) I had a whole bunch of Middle Eastern clips I recorded from my Korg PA-80 before I sold it, and being able to use those at any tempo was a real mind-blower at the time....
Cakewalk should provide a user option for that (external matrix off/on for example), or make it automatic if a pad controller is attached (not sure how to do that, but it could be an off/on switch for external matrix control.
What they really should do is implement Cakewalk as a VST so it could be used in Live, or Fruity Loops (which can be used as a vst), or within Maschine (also a vst), where the tempo/time signature is set by the host. (For Live, the tempo is set by host, so elastic audio is not necessary in vst's... clips can be drag/dropped into Live if that is needed. Live handles tempo/time signature flawlessly in my experience.)
Well, I'll probably never have time to use all this stuff before I progress to a different pasture, but it is nice to leave knowing somebody is doing it... :)
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Just so you know, I am a programmer myself. 10 years experience in computer physics at General Research and Santa Barbara Research (during Star Wars; Fortran, Vax/VMS etc) and 5 years at the Santa Barbara Police Dept. (Vax/VMS, Visual Basic) and C++ for a private firm for about a year.... :)
I know, I know, it doesn't show.... :)
But I guess that running these other programs as vst's inside Sonar will work just fine, come to think of it.
I've been looking at your programming language in AZ Control (how to set banks, etc.) Where does the language come from, did you develop it yourself? I'll read more on your site to try to figure it out, but if you have a two line answer, that'll be fine. I may try a controller on my own, just to see if I can do it, now that I know the basics of the UC33e...
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Also, one thing I find really missing is a tempo control. Actually, some of the rotors in send or gain in Mix could be sacrificed for this and other purposes. The full channel strip bank could be temporary (holding down command without doing anything would make the 4th bank available (or just the auxiliary functions not present in the current version); releasing it would make it go away. That would give access to everything. (Tranzport has a tempo control for Live but not for Sonar).
Or a command + rotor that would allow a rotor (e.g. the gain on track #8) that would shift its use to tempo when the command button was held down temporarily)... This could also be used for the channel bank I mentioned above - the switch wouldn't be permanent, but temporary, and would allow all the other commands to be accessed.
Might even consider making the command button a toggle (off/on) switch rather than press/release, come to think of it. Are there any down sides to that?
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Also, one thing I find really missing is a tempo control.
And you are not alone... Sonar has no tempo control. It allows tempo changes in "edit" mode only, not in real time. And even that functionality is hidden from Surfaces.
We have invented a dirty workaround for BCR2000, by keyboard commands opening insert tempo dialog and changing numbers there. So at least for practicing it is possible go to the first bar and than modify tempo by encoder. But no more then that.
Just so you know, I am a programmer myself. 10 years experience in computer physics at General Research and Santa Barbara Research (during Star Wars; Fortran, Vax/VMS etc) and 5 years at the Santa Barbara Police Dept. (Vax/VMS, Visual Basic) and C++ for a private firm for about a year.... :)
I know, I know, it doesn't show.... :)
But I guess that running these other programs as vst's inside Sonar will work just fine, come to think of it.
I've been looking at your programming language in AZ Control (how to set banks, etc.) Where does the language come from, did you develop it yourself? I'll read more on your site to try to figure it out, but if you have a two line answer, that'll be fine. I may try a controller on my own, just to see if I can do it, now that I know the basics of the UC33e...
So far users completely without programming experience have not managed do anything with AZ Controller. So taking your story into account (and so your age), the fact you are using Live with controllers and your systematical approach in proposals, I have already guessed that you have seen computers ;)
I was shortly working with Vax/VMS, a bit more with Alpha/VMS. And Fortran was the first language I have learned (on Russian analogs of old IBM and 180k floppy "micro" computers).
AZ Controller is a compilation coming from my experience. The idea how it should function comes from LabVIEW and my own physical experiments controlling projects. The script language concept has roots in Forth, Prolog and DAW concept of changing parameters on the fly with immediate effect. It had to be lightweight to be manageable by one man during (a part of) free time (including the interpreter and IDE), completely open for "experiments" (since I am not a studio engineer and so I had not ideas how it SHOULD work), originally simple for not programmers (but I have failed with that, Monitoring, functions and arrays are not something "self-explaining" for musicians, and without these concepts creating complex logic is a nightmare).
I have mentioned that to create own complex presets you need an "UFO engineering course". It includes (in sequence):
1) "ACT MIDI Explained" tutorial (to practically create half complex configuration and understanding how to use the IDE)
2) Reading the manual (to understand what is theoretically possible to do)
3) and long missing by recently added "Buttons and PADs with LEDs: mastering the feedback" (for most complex concepts in AZ Controller and several practical "tricks")
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Well, you've done fantastic work. I remember now the tempo control was another WTF reason I abandoned Cakewalk years ago (It has been a LONG time since I looked at it, and even then only went back because of the comping functionality). Everything else is so much easier in Live. Maschine, and even Fruity Loops, which is really coming on strong.
Maybe its because the audio clips are not elastic, so they didn't want the user changing tempo on the fly. That actually makes sense if one considers Sonar to be a premiere audio editing tool (particularly for guitarists, vocalists, and other studio musicians with acoustic instruments that make real use of Melodyne...)
I may not like my recorded guitar playing but my vocals REALLY suck.. But in Flamenco it doesn't matter too much; everyone just thinks you're "old school" :)
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There already is a preset for Launch Control XL (I found it on your site?), but I don't know how extensive it is.
How difficult would it be to port the configuration for the UC33e (once it is final, provided it is possible to add the missing controls in ProChannel) to that controller (in case something happens to my UC33e)?. I'd help with that in testing, of course). It looks like there are enough buttons, knobs, and sliders to do the job (in fact more buttons, for Pro Channel modes).
(There are not many used UC33e's in good condition on the market....:)
And of course, it would give all users a very useable and available control surface for Sonar at only $149. After looking at the configurations of all available controllers to date that I know of, IMO that looks like the best all-around flexible choice for Sonar. And in conjunction with Faderport or other wireless controllers for transport, I think it would work great.... (especially with my Tranzport).
(And it also works great with Live - and I get tempo control with my Tranzport...!!)
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How difficult would it be to port the configuration for the UC33e (once it is final, provided it is possible to add the missing controls in ProChannel) to that controller (in case something happens to my UC33e)?. I'd help with that in testing, of course). It looks like there are enough buttons, knobs, and sliders to do the job (in fact more buttons, for Pro Channel modes).
It is not a problem to apply a configuration for one device to another, as long they are more or less compatible in controls (like UC33 and Launch Control XL).
It happens I am a bit busy these days (I have received new notebook I have to setup, my younger daughter got a cold, in addition to what I have mentioned before), but I will continue the preset modification soon.
Note as I have mentioned before, the "best" small devices for Sonar+AZ Controller combination are with encoders instead of knobs (f.e. BCR2000)
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Sounds like you're busy; I'll wait till we get the final configuration for the UC33e finished before I order the Launchpad XL. Maybe I can do most of the work myself, if I can figure out how your logic works. Also, by then it might be NAMM, and we'll see what other controllers manufacturers have in mind. But as soon as the UC33e is finished, so I'll have a good conceptual model, I'll spring for a Launch XL (remember, I'm not all that familiar with Sonar, or indeed with how others would want to use it - I just think an interface with channel and pro-channel functions would be gorgeous.
The BCR 2000 would probably be best, but to me the LC XL has a more logical setup (and a flatter footprint) in my mind, and is less expensive and more portable (from an aesthetic sense, I think the BCR2000 is butt-ugly as well, but that's just me.... There are also bank buttons, etc. on the LC, and enough buttons to always have transport functions available in every bank - or even most pro-channel functions in a channel select mode (as contrasted with mixer mode).
(One could also implement a channel select mode on the UC33e which (e.g.) could give access to more sends with the faders and all the buttons and rotors for pro-channel mode (or other Sonar or vst controls) for each selected strip. That might get too complex for the average user (like me), though, but would be exciting for the obsessed tweaker (like me :)
If a channel select mode were available, one could always use MIDI learn on a case-by case basis for the extra (vst) controls.... without implementing it permanently in AZ Control.
And the XL integrates with Live seamlessly... no need to have two controllers - I also have a Push 2, but for me that is mainly an musical instrument rather than a mixing surface (although it will do everything well).
And once the XL is done, other surfaces would probably be easier for users - especially if the logic is well thought out,
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If a channel select mode were available, one could always use MIDI learn on a case-by case basis for the extra (vst) controls.... without implementing it permanently in AZ Control.
Channel select was assigned to "+/-", which unfortunately not assignable... Can be moved to "0"+"FF/REW".
VST control (other then performance) is done with "Dynamic mapping" in ACT, can be yet another "bank" (Startup preset had it). But again, some navigation is required then.
I do not believe in universal fixed "seamless integration". Something which you never use is wasting hardware controls and something you need all the time is not there. Especially for n00bs like me, which always need something unusual compare to "pro studio" users.
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I agree about the VST (I think); what I meant was that if one doesn't have a favorite vst, one can assign controls "on the fly" via midi learn, but it will mean abandoning the use of some controls in the root surface interface.
But I think the XL would be a better choice once the logical flow of the important functions of Sonar are logically organized, since the XL does have enough buttons and flexibility to permit easy configuration (e.g., the channel select mode); there are already buttons configured and labeled for switching banks in addition to the 16 normally used for mute/solo and record arming.
The UC33e was quite advanced for its day; and I doubt they had Sonar specifically in mind, but that's why I purchased it... :)
Anyway, I will order a Launchpad XL right now, if you'd be willing to help me put it into a really operable form for Sonar - more as a public service than anything else. (And I'll send you my UC33e.. :)
I noticed that there was a problem with noisy LED's which had to be switched off when recording, but other than that, it seems ideal for sonar except for the lack of dedicated transport button (the bottom 4 could be assigned permanently, with a shift function to enable recording for those four tracks.
OTH, I don't need transport/scrolling since the Tranzport covers ithem and has the added advantage of being wireless and most users could purchase an external unit (even a numerical pad would work for those functions, or a faderport, etc...
If someone at NAMM comes out with the equivalent of an XL with transport/scroll, great, (I would probably buy it, silly me.) But for me, I thinks the XL would be an inexpesnsive and powerful controller for Sonar if set up properly for basic functions + the prochannel.
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Anyway, I will order a Launchpad XL right now, if you'd be willing to help me put it into a really operable form for Sonar - more as a public service than anything else. (And I'll send you my UC33e.. :)
Probably not before next week... I have tried to work on my Notebook today, but instead I had to spend the whole day to tune it.... wonderful Linux world. In addition I have understood that I will have to hack the touchpad driver myself. People are "fighting" with similar several years, but no progress so far.
But please do not send me UC33... if I understand your location right, that is going to be transatlantic route.
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Any time is fine with me, if you're willing to help with the LP XL. I'll order one and see what you did with the existing preset, and see if I can understand it. The main thing is getting the controls set up right logically so the configuration can be easily ported over ... and I'll be learning about the XL in the meantime.
And I can send your wife the flowers with the money I get from selling the UC33e when we're finished. Is that OK with you?
PS - If one wanted simultaneous control of everything all at once, one could just purchase three (or more) controllers for Sonar ...
1. Mix Mode
2. Channel Select Mode
3. Pro Channel Mode
:)
Not only that, I envision a separate controller for each vst, until everyone signs on to NKS... Or Ableton :)
No order. I'll wait for NAMM and then decide.
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Not only that, I envision a separate controller for each vst, until everyone signs on to NKS... Or Ableton :)
The way NKS, AutoMap, AKAI Advance and ACT dynamic mapping is working is THE SAME. Well, NKS can "highlight" some notes... since you have have programmed, you know it is just 1-2 function calls difference ;)
WTF? Update: I just discovered you can't modify the knobs in Launch Control XL So I cancelled the order again. Maybe MidiMix or back to nanoStudio.... :)
Man.... that is a GOOD think for control surfaces! That means the user can not "break" well known mapping (which you can easily do with UC33). Why "Mackie Control" or "ProTools HUI" are so famous? Because these controllers are NOT CONFIGURABLE! So called "Mackie protocol" is just FIXED HARDWARE MAPPING between buttons (notes), knobs (CC) and faders (PitchBend) (for HUI a bit more "unnatural" assignments).
Let me quickly compare U33/MidiMix/Lauch control XL/nanoKontrol Studio:
U33:
- no feedback on buttons,
- no strip buttons
+ dedicated transport control
MidiMix:
- no transport buttons
- only 2-3 extra buttons
+ 2x8 LED buttons ( one raw switchable, 2 layers)
LauchControl XL:
- no transport buttons
+ 4 extra buttons
+ 2x8 LED buttons (on raw switchable, 3 layers)
NanoKontrol studio:
- only one raw of knobs
+ transport
+ 5 extra buttons (in addition to transport)
+ jogger!
+ 4 rows of LED buttons
(+) potentially wireless
But can you remember 24 knobs meaning for each plug-in? Normally not. Also you have to "catch" the value after any bank switch.
So XTouch mini, just with 8 knobs but ENCODERS with rings is in fact better choice as a compact DAW controller. Thanks to encoder, is not not a problem to switch banks even "within" one plug-in - no catch required. Also one third of the price of other... So I will choose it as a plug-in controller with NanoKontor studio as a DAW controller, if the choice is limited by these devices.
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Thanks (and for your patience). I'll continue to think about it and try to map out the way I think a controller should work in my own words, using your guides as a reference. I'll look into the x-touch mini as well, The NJ studio has always been attractive to me, but I already have a great jog wheel + transport in the Tranzport. But other users might benefit from the NK studio, so I'll give it another look.
Maybe the x-Touch mini + the UC33e for now.... for Sonar. For my workhorses (Live and Maschine) I already have great control surfaces. An interesting idea, if all the controls for prochannel are accessible on the UC33e.... (can the LED on the UC33e be used to indicate control status?)
I guess if I were going to spend the time and effort, I would go with the x-Touch compact, since I don't need the scroll wheel, and it looks like it has all the assignable controls one would ever need for a complete template for Sonar. Are there any downsides? If that were really done right, I think that's what most Sonar users would want anyway.
Klaus apparently made a preset for the x-Touch Compact; do you have it on your site or are you in touch with Klaus?
Finally, maybe a separate controller for the ProChannel along with a couple (or more) of Sonar's inhouse presets (e.g. a standard reverb) would be the way to go.
(I just realized I have TONS of old controllers around that will do MIDI (e.g., a VS-20, a Samson Graphite, apc mini and apc key, TriggerFinger Pro, etc, etc), including an old Contour ShuttlePro I bought for Sonar a long time ago... I thought they went out of business, but apparently they're back again
I'll do an inventory and see - the UC33e was the first thing I thought of, but there is a lot of older stuff that could be put to use. :)
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Maybe the x-Touch mini + the UC33e for now.... for Sonar. For my workhorses (Live and Maschine) I already have great control surfaces. An interesting idea, if all the controls for prochannel are accessible on the UC33e.... (can the LED on the UC33e be used to indicate control status?)
I do not think something can be sent to UC33 display.
I guess if I were going to spend the time and effort, I would go with the x-Touch compact, since I don't need the scroll wheel, and it looks like it has all the assignable controls one would ever need for a complete template for Sonar. Are there any downsides? If that were really done right, I think that's what most Sonar users would want anyway.
Klaus apparently made a preset for the x-Touch Compact; do you have it on your site or are you in touch with Klaus?
I do not remember Compact presets. I have plans to make Compact preset, but it is going to be special accessible preset, not for general use.
Finally, maybe a separate controller for the ProChannel along with a couple (or more) of Sonar's inhouse presets (e.g. a standard reverb) would be the way to go.
That is now Kontrol 1 has success, one channel strip with dedicated controller for it. The same idea with the Lauchcontrol (not XL) preset, ProChannel pure.
My guess an average requirements from hardware control surfaces can be compared with corresponding hardware devices the software emulate. So mixing surfaces look like digital mixers, FX controllers like front panels of rack FX modules, loop starters like step sequencers, etc.
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Do you mean nanoKontrol 1? I have one of those, I just never used it for Sonar...
Maybe a nanoKontrol 2 could be configured to just work with the ProChannel on a per-channel basis.
(I really liked the first version, because it had a master fader; the 2 version does not)...
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Hi, Alexei,
En Fin -
Well, I've taken a lot of your valuable time, and this has been yet another learning experience for me. I've decided not to pursue controllers any more than the UC33e, which is already beyond my wildest dreams, and just needs a tad more touching up (and if we don't get to it, I can always use my mouse for those mostly never needed functions)
In fact, NI's software and controllers are more than over kill for anything I would ever want or need (I also have Arturia's stuff, which is recognized by NKS), which can all be run as vst in Sonar with tightly integrated surfaces. Also can run as vst in Live. Subjectively, what really turned me on in Sonar was the comping and that gorgeous expanded display of the ProEq, so I may just stick to that and editing the raw audio.
I will certainly send flowers for you wife when it is time; just let me know how and when. I must get back to practicing so I can get the raw audio down in the first place before I can even think of mixing, and the four-finger picado is really difficult to master; Flamenco guitar is a high maintenance girl friend who can turn on you any time on stage ... :)
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One more note: I just hand the thought that Maschine Studio might make a fantastic controller for Sonar. So I added it as a control surface put it in Midi mode, set it up in AZ Control and began tweaking knobs, wheels and buttons. There are a LOT of options, and a fantastic editor to go with it.
That is REALLY something to think about. Besides templates for Ableton Live, it has templates for Mackie Control and MCU Transport. I just didn't think of it in the Sonar Context. Incredble. Next step is to try some of the templates. The Editor is beautiful..
Update: After installing your .dll fix, Mackie Template works for Sonar in Maschine Studio!!!!
So far, out of the box, I have master and track volume faders, mute, Solo, and record!
There's more stuff, too in Control Editor; various options to assign v-pots, whatever they are, add pages, etc. It even hooked up to the compressor, and turns the ProChannel off and on (with a v-pot, though - no other controls but plenty of blank v-pots)
Just saw the thread on the Sonar Forum with suggestions about the VS-700. More research....
I dunno, though. I really like your Display. The actual control surface is pretty flaky, even with the Mackie Control. The UC33e implementation is much more solid. I GOTTA start practicing!
The Ableton Live Template is just great!
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I guess if I were going to spend the time and effort, I would go with the x-Touch compact, since I don't need the scroll wheel, and it looks like it has all the assignable controls one would ever need for a complete template for Sonar. Are there any downsides? If that were really done right, I think that's what most Sonar users would want anyway.
Klaus apparently made a preset for the x-Touch Compact; do you have it on your site or are you in touch with Klaus?
Hi BuleriaChk,
I could certainly upload my preset for the X-Touch Compact but it's probably not very useful to you because I only use the X-Touch for standard tasks like Volume Fader, MSR buttons, Pan knobs, Transport Controls and some shortcuts/keybindings mapped to some of the rotaries push function.
I don't need it for ACT parameters because I use an additional control surface exclusively (more or less) for VST(i)s and thanks to Alexey's brilliant plug-in the combination of these two controllers handled by AZ Controller is exactly what I've ever wanted!
I use SONAR together with AZ Controller daily and it works not only flawlessly but also soo well, because I finally have the freedom to control what I want with all available buttons, faders, rotaries - you name it - on my hardware devices.
I'm still impressed and really, really grateful!
If you still want my preset for the X-Touch Compact or if you have any further questions about it (from a user experience view), I'm glad to share/help.
Best,
Klaus
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Hi, Klaus,
Thank you very much for responding. I've decided not to pursue control surfaces further for the time being, since Alexei's work on the UC33e was so powerful, with only a few unimportant functions left to be implemented in the Pro-Channel.
The x-touch looks very useful, but I don't actually "mix" very much (I'm a guitarist who practices a lot, without much result these days...:) So for right now, all my needs can really be handled by the UC33e and the Tranzport; I just got really excited by being frustrated with Cakewalk for SO long vis-à-vis ACT. I just wish I had had AZ control a decade or more ago when I first launched into Cakewalk....
Again, thanks for your response, and it is good to know you're still around....
Chuck
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Alexei -
Just so I understand -
It looks like you assign them variables locally in the subroutine when it is called (dynamically), rather than storing them in a bank. E.g., is "ACT R500" a variable, or does it actually refer to something in ACT (Sonar). (I think it is just a variable)...
That is, I see your logic in setting up the command button in the UC33e. Is that all that is necessary, or does it require some programming only you can do?
Thanks,
Chuck
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I have mentioned all 3 tutorials you should go throw to understand how everything is working, including banks.
Nothing is "hidden" from the end-user. There can be some bugs, some features not yet implemented, etc. But everything you can observe in any preset is implemented inside the preset. I mean there is no "hard coded" parts, other then implementations of actions/logic you can configure freely.
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Ok, thanks. I'll continue to struggle with it... I'm getting an idea of your language....
Just so you know... I'm 76, and I HATE starting from the beginning in ANYTHING :)
(When I retired in '65, I said to myself "Quantum Field Theory is the LAST time I am going to do this.. But I just proved Fermat's Last Theorem from the relativistic unit circle. Actually, it is a very easy proof from the Binomial Theorem; I can't understand why Dr. Wiles has such difficulty, unless he hasn't heard about Descartes... )
(Your startup tutorial answered a lot of questions... :)
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I am not yet at your level with that...
But even at 43 I am faster getting nervous with new staff :)
In defense, I can only say that AZ Controller is an "old school" software. It is written in "C" (not C++) with no external dependencies (other then Windows RunTime, which is not possible to avoid in programs for Windows...), it has old style user interface and concepts are also quite old.
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I am not yet at your level with that...
But even at 43 I am faster getting nervous with new staff :)
In defense, I can only say that AZ Controller is an "old school" software. It is written in "C" (not C++) with no external dependencies (other then Windows RunTime, which is not possible to avoid in programs for Windows...), it has old style user interface and concepts are also quite old.
Hey, I can send you a link to my take on the proof of Fermat's if you like. But IMO it is really obvious from inspection of the Binomial Theorem ... :) (I just applied linear algebra and special relativity to nail it shut)....
As far a c vs c++ is concerned... the Bleeding Edge of Technology is not always good... :)
(I retired because they were going to introduce Visual C++ as an alternative to Visual Basic in the database program (I was converting a database Records/Parking/Animal Control/ etc program for the SBPD that I hadn't written and we had no documentation for from VMS to Visual Basic). Visual C++ was totally unnecessary IMO... but that's a short boring story... I did get about half written and working before they wanted to scrap everything and start all over; but the job was a grant, and allowed me a pension to live in SB, so everything wasn't all bad... :)
Eventually they hired a big company for umpteen millions to do it, but the Parking Records supervisor was busted for embezzlement a year after I left .... :)
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Theorems proofing can be quite scaring to read... I remember that after digging deep into Gödel's incompleteness theorem, I was playing online RPG games for many years since any "science" no longer had any sense for me ;)
That time I have built non relational multi-root tree based DB for controlling an experiment. All algorithms was "brute force", so with this DB complexity, loading it into the Visual Editor was taking almost a night... I was searching for some theory in that area. I have started from practical realizations, available for "knowledge bases" since some of them was tree based. Then reading some mathematically fancy publications about finding optimum routes and whatever else I could find. After 2 years I have declared my work as "epic fail". Since then, I use SQL only... Recently I have developed an "object oriented" PHP front-end, so an user can build own DBs by defining the structure interactively, so that the rest (entering data dialogs, views, reports, etc.) is generated automatically on the fly. This time with success, I use the result for my BD collection at home and Scintillating Fibre (SciFi) Tracker production at work ;)
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Goedel's Theorem can be paraphrased by: "This sentence makes sense"...:)
Wittgenstein had some interesting things to say about it.... but you first have to understand Zen and what it means to be a relativistic observer w.r.t. quantum mechanics...
"There's me and thee, but I am not completely convinced of thee"... :)
Descartes started it all with "I think, therefore I am..." (He also introduced the Cartesian coordinate system...) Einstein took that, and together with Maxwell and Newton, we got STR - and QM from the photo-electric effect, for which he got the Nobel prize, NOT relativity. A wise choice, IMO, on the part of the Nobel committee, who were reality oriented ....
But Einstein is right, if you understand him.... (at least according to me... :)
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Hi,
I finally have found some time to look at the preset again.
All knobs seems like defined this time.
I have noticed "Num 1" is mapped to "CC 75" instead of "Note", as all other buttons. May be it is in "Toggle" mode or "Release" is set to not zero. And so strange behavior with the Display toggle. Please check Last MIDI Event when you press/release this button to understand what is going on.
Possibilities: A separate bank for just channel controls
For the channel strip, there should be a bank for strip controls not as often used:
(per Channel Strip):
Gain (R)
That we have in the Mix mode for all 8 channels.
----------------
Pre/Post (pad)
Global On/Off (pad) (Audio Engine Reset)
For what? For ProChannel?
Bypass Effects rack (pad)
Not exposed to CS... Only global "Bypass all effects".
Sends Enable (Pad)
Post (pad)
Level (R)
Pan (Pad)
There is only "per send" enable option. The level for the first send we already have in Mix.
So that make sense if we define separate "Send" mode, with several Sends and corresponding controls.
--------------------
Interleave (Stereo) (Pad)
Phase (Pad)
Read enable (Pad)
Write enable (Pad)
----------
Mute (pad)
Solo (Pad)
Record (pad)
Input Echo (Pad)
Pan (R)
Volume (Fader)
-----------
3 Rotors
14 pads
1 fader
---------------------
Just an extra button bank in mix mode for the extra buttons?)
And we have only 9 pads...
There is absolutely no reason to assign (limited) controls (without display on the surface) to some functions just because that is possible. If some function is not used all the time, it is hard to remember where (if at all) it is. Ask any MCU owner which functionality of buttons with modifiers they are using, I guess most of them will not understand the question since they have never tried to use them with 4(!) modifiers defined in the plug-in.
So if you need some changes, please let we know what exactly you are missing. Sorry, but I have hard time to believe you are missing "interleave" switch in case your Input is set correctly ;)
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Everything is OK, thanks.
I'm good.... :)
(I just went greedy....:)
(I'm not going to do anything more until I see what comes out at NAMM; I just noticed a black Launch Control XL, available now. In any case, I will probably do all my work (recording) in Live, dragging tracks into Sonar for multiple take editing (comping), and back out into live for any additional processing, if necessary...)
So thanks again for the education and the implementation on the UC33e, and be sure and let me know when and where to send flowers.... :)