AZSlow
AZ Controller plug-in for Cakewalk SONAR => Presets => Topic started by: azslow3 on July 07, 2015, 11:21:00 PM
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Note: AZ Controller v0.4r1b254 or later is required to use this preset
How to use:
- Install AZ Controller plug-in first (at the moment the latest test version).
- Insert AZ Controller in the "Control Surfaces" section of SONAR preferences and attach HUI compatible device MIDI Input/Output to it. It is good idea to detach it from other plug-ins, in case you have already used it with sonar.
- Import attached preset (HUI.spp) using Cakewalk Plug-in Manager (from Utilities menu in Sonar)
- Open AZ Controller configuration dialog
- Select HUI preset
The preset defines at the moment:
- Motorized faders with touch, control Volume
- Encoders control Pan (ring feedback)
- Mute/Solo/Rec control corresponding strip function (with LED feedback)
- Next/Previous Bank
Note: the preset is created and tested with Novation Nocturn under Automap HUI mode and supports only functions exposed by that device/emulation.
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Good job!
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Can you define midi time code and transport controls? :)
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Can you define midi time code and transport controls? :)
Transport controls I can try to define but I can not test them, so that will be up to you and I expect feedback in that case (I mean the answer
either it works or not, usual feedback is a silence... and that is not motivating).
But with MTC I do not understand what you mean. Which device do you have?
Sonar has own MTC processing (in Preferences), Control Surfaces API can work with MTC signals but it can not sync (it is called ~13 times per second only).
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Hi az. Thank you for your fast reply. Of course i will test it and give you all the feedback. Not only feedback but also the credits for helping sonar music community. It's great to have users like you trying to help others. Hi have a mackie d8b mixer console with os 5.1, so i have a layer with hui control surface on it to control a daw. I use sonar platinum and you know cakewalk doente support mackie hui.i can get mtc time code on console so i have a clock sync on d8b to use the transport controls. The problem is that when i go to hui mode console stops receiving midi time clock. The clock stop to show on lcd. I get out of hui and i have time on lcd again... Maybe hui protocol use mtc on a different way. It would be great if we could have an hui to mackie control interpreter based on your azslow. I can help you with tests if you need. Thankx and congratulations for your work.
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Hi az. Thank you for your fast reply. Of course i will test it and give you all the feedback. Not only feedback but also the credits for helping sonar music community. It's great to have users like you trying to help others. Hi have a mackie d8b mixer console with os 5.1, so i have a layer with hui control surface on it to control a daw. I use sonar platinum and you know cakewalk doente support mackie hui.i can get mtc time code on console so i have a clock sync on d8b to use the transport controls. The problem is that when i go to hui mode console stops receiving midi time clock. The clock stop to show on lcd. I get out of hui and i have time on lcd again... Maybe hui protocol use mtc on a different way. It would be great if we could have an hui to mackie control interpreter based on your azslow. I can help you with tests if you need. Thankx and congratulations for your work.
Ok, i understand now.
Just to mention. From what I know, there are some solutions which make 3x MCU from d8b. That it an "easy" way to use the device in Sonar, as other users do. These are hardware/software solutions and they are not freeware. But compare to the time we both will spend for complete d8b specific HUI coverage, these solutions are not expensive. So please think either you are ready to spend the time for AZ Controller or money for other solutions. I am fine with both variants, but if we start with AZ Ctrl we should bring it at least up to some proved working state. Otherwise I will waste my time, that happens often and I do not like that.
Pro/cons of both variant:
1) other solutions:
- pro: universal (not Sonar specific), ready right now and guarantied to work
- cons: d8b is not exactly 3xMCU so mapping layout is not ideal (I mean DAW "think" it looks different and so the MCU mapping), MackieControl in Sonar has own limitations and it is "fixed" in any case (you can not assign arbitrary complex actions to controls)
2) AZ Ctrl
- pro: strait communication without intermediate layer, arbitrary assignments which can be tuned specifically for d8b and your personal needs (I understand that you can not do initial configuration, but have a look at BCR2000 thread)
- cons: works in Sonar only, can take a while to make functional, unsure about all 24 channels
In case you go AZ Ctrl route:
When not in HUI mode, d8b shows MTC on the time display. In HUI mode it is just a "display", up to the software (AZ Ctrl) to show something there. Can be Sonar Time in different formats, Clock time or even your birthday. I can not use it right now (except for the Birthday :) ), I will have to extend AZCtrl for that. But that will not take long.
Can you describe how d8b is connected to Sonar? On picture it has 24 channels. HUI (one device) support 8. I just want to understand your general connection schema.
AZ Controller v0.5r0b310 or later required (currently test version)
19.03 I attach mod preset with basic transport buttons (FF/Rew, Play, Stop, Rec).
20.03 Time display (MBT format)
21.03 Channel select (on strips), Copy/Cut/Paste, Undo, Jog wheel
22.03 WAI move by 1 channel, MBT is shifted to match HUI labeling, Channel name display fix
23.03 Aux (1-5), Display, VU meters, Save/Loop/Rtz/End/Enter and numeric keys
04.04 VU meters for left/right channels are separated
11.04 VU test control
14.04 VU should be fixed now
28.04 ProChannel EQ mode
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Hi AZ. Thank you for your hard work. I will try the new preset tomorrow. I know the pro solution for d8b for turning it into a mcu (3 mcu's) but you loose the audio on the mixer. I want to have both audio mixer and daw control. The mixer has 24 faders for channels but when you use HUI layer you can only use last 8 channels so it's like a mackie HUI unit. It have also bank select, record arming, solo, mute etc... It's all the features of mackie HUI unit. You can count on me for testing.
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I have updated the preset in the previous post, I will do this every time I change it (with corresponding changes description).
Time display should somehow work. But please check it really works correctly (it does not in TouchDAW ProTools mode). I mean all digits and dots should be at the same place as by MBT time format in Sonar (we can add SMPTE later).
Please install the latest test version of AZ Controller (you can find it in the Downloads), you should see b302 (or later) in AZCtrl preferences.
So, please carefully check all existing functionality, so far it is:
* Faders. Bidirectional. Is d8b touch sensitive? Automation overwriting should work correctly then. Also check that faders are not "fighting" with you, I mean touch some fader and move the same fader within Sonar. Does hardware fader tries to move?
* Mute/Solo/Record arm. LEDs for them show light correctly
* Bank left/right (without LEDs)
* Encoders for Pan control, with Ring indication
* Transport (FF/REW/STOP/Play/Rec), with correct LED indication
* Time display in MBT format. Note that it is not updated when you FF/Rewind till you stop moving (like in Sonar).
Once you are convinced all that is working, we can move to next controls. It is up to you to specify priority and functionality for controls, please look at "Last MIDI Event" when you press and release (separately) buttons / turn controls. Every digit displayed inclusive "Value" is important. With that information, I will likely produce less mistakes in mapping.
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Hi. Arrived Home now from weekend gig. Will test everything tomorrow. D8b is NOT touch sensitive. cheers and thankx. Have a nice Day.
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Hi AZ. Testing finished. All the features are working 100% OK. Tested every new feature. maybe next you can add select channel, next channel, and copy past undo cut on the next update. i'm very grateful for your kind help. thankx.
p.s. forgot someting - jog wheel is also essencial.
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Hi AZ. Testing finished. All the features are working 100% OK. Tested every new feature. maybe next you can add select channel, next channel, and copy past undo cut on the next update. i'm very grateful for your kind help. thankx.
p.s. forgot someting - jog wheel is also essencial.
Preset updated, so Jog wheel, copy/paste/cut/undo and channel select buttons (with indication) should work now.
"Next channel"... not found, and I do not understand the meaning. As I have mentioned, for every button please write me:
1) the name of d8b (and approximate location so I can find it on picture)
2) what you see in the "Last MIDI Event" when you press it
3) what you want it does, except when obvious
That is a bit work for you, I know. But please understand that without this information I have to:
a) looking at (not very good) picture of d8b find the button
b) try to guess what can it be on HUI
c) find the HUI name is a HUGE table with numbers
d) guess which result should it produce
It happens that with Edit buttons that was easy (only Undo is in different HUI zone). But with most other it is not. I for example have not found "Bank" buttons on the picture...
I put 1 beat movements on Jogger. That can be almost anything but I can not bound it to the zoom nor snap level (I can not get that information from Sonar). May be it is time to think about modifier keys. I mean I see Ctrl/Opt/Etc. They can be used the same way as with computer keyboard, they can modify any other control. AZCtrl has no limitation on that and it is not bound to the "standard" HUI behavior (it does not exists for Sonar in any case). So, we can define "Ctrl+Opt"+Jogger move between Markers if desired. Also any key can be modifier. Some combinations are shown on d8b but we are not bound to them either. The functionality can be state dependent, so any control can do different operations which in Rec/Play/Stop (also Loop, either Track with name "VOX" is current, etc.). I hope you understand what I mean.
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I'll send you a reference picture with all the hui functions on d8b. Not all buttons function on hui layer, but you'll understand what it does on picture. Hui was prepared for protools so some functions Dont have direct correspondence on sonar but we can find another needed functions.
The next channel function is similar to bank change bu instead of 8 channels it moves one channel .
Thank You.
I will get all you need.
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Thank you for files. That will help. But probably there still will be questions (there is no official HUI docs, just some famous RE pdf. In the Mackie they use ProTools terms, in PDF there are labels from HUI device, so there can be some mismatches).
I have updated the preset, Channel buttons should work now. Also Time should be at correct place. Note that you need b303 version of AZCtrl.
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Hi. Will try updated preset today. Maybe you can work on aux buttons now. Can you make the meters show signal? What about channel labels? ;)
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Hi. Will try updated preset today. Maybe you can work on aux buttons now. Can you make the meters show signal? What about channel labels? ;)
What should aux buttons do for your?
I will try with meters and labels.
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Aux1 should select sonar aux1 send to v-pots and so on , bu only until aux 5 . d8b don't have aux 6 available for hui . After that i need to have pan button assigned to pan to v-pots so i can go back to it after using aux's. (pan is default to v-pots on start up). If you need some code from mcu pro i have access to one (and c4 pro too). Thanks.
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channels selection working, but time is locked. it shows 001.01.000 and don´t run anymore. . on mackie i have 4 spaces on bar so maybe 0001.01.00 (ticks have two spaces) . If you think it will not work then return it to the values you add on previous preset.
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Aux1 should select sonar aux1 send to v-pots and so on , bu only until aux 5 . d8b don't have aux 6 available for hui . After that i need to have pan button assigned to pan to v-pots so i can go back to it after using aux's. (pan is default to v-pots on start up). If you need some code from mcu pro i have access to one (and c4 pro too). Thanks.
I know Sonar MCU code. How many Sends you normally have? Do you adjust them in parallel for several strips, several sends in parallel for the same strip or some mixture of that two? How often you tune pan/source/pre-post for sends? I prefer to make a layout based on particular practice, not a "hard to use generic all rounder" existing for MCU.
For text display we have a problem... I already send channel names, but since you ask that does not work. I will try to understand why.
channels selection working, but time is locked. it shows 001.01.000 and don´t run anymore. . on mackie i have 4 spaces on bar so maybe 0001.01.00 (ticks have two spaces) . If you think it will not work then return it to the values you add on previous preset.
I will check from home soon, but are you sure you have installed b303 build of AZCtrl?
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Yes i have the lastest version installed
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With channel names there was at least one bug, which I have fixed now. The preset is updated.
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With display is the following: original HUI has 8x 4 character strip display and 2x 40 character separate display. I try to send to 2x 40 display since
I do not see strip displays on d8b. Do you see at least something with the latest preset?
For time:
In HUI imitator I see at least some changes with b303. Please check one more time that you see "0.4 r2 b303" in the right bottom corner of AZ Ctrl window.
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Have b303. Clock is displayed correctly now.text is displayed correctly on lcd (track names).I think you can send text to channel strip too because there are strips on monitor. I use several aux sends sometimes because i use several buses for parallel compression. Sometimes I adjust several sends at once but I use group sends for that so when I use one all the others in group move equally.I prefer to have sends 1 to 5 assigned. Button nr 24 save patch can be assigned to save project. I prefer to have jogger moving 1 bar. And if possible have numpad working (and enter key too). loop button can activate loop. Alt + rewind to RTZ (project start). Alt + fast forward to End.
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Forgot to tell you that d8b works with dedicated PC with os from mackie and it have external monitor so there's some info about d8b that only shows on cpu monitor. Meters for HUI and channel strips for example.
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Ok, big update now:
* Big display always show strip names. Channel displays (4 characters) also show strip names in Pan mode, but it shows Bus (Aux) names in Aux mode. Displays are updated "slow", we can try to make it faster later, with careful check that is not disturbing stability
* Encoders processing was reworked to support Pan,Aux1-5 (level only). Rings should work in correct more too (spread/value).
* mode is switched by corresponding buttons, with LED indication
* AZCtrl should detect the device went offline and reinitialize on reconnect
* VU meters should work. HUI and Sonar support stereo (2 separate meters pro channel), but AZCtrl does not. If that is a problem, please let me know. Current scale is Sonar "Native" (Sonar has max at +6dB, while HUI has it on 0dB).
* Jogger is changed to measure
With keys I am not sure (there are so many "alts" on HUI), if does not work send me correct Last MIDI Event
* Save patch (MemLoc) - Save project
* Alt (with LED). But d8b probably has "internal alt", which produce no Last MIDI Event on itself
* Loop (with LED)
* RTZ and End (Alt+FF/Rew), in case d8b does that as I think...
* Numpad keys (as I have understood them, untested) with Enter.
Your turn :)
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Hi AZ. The only bug detected is with meters on midi track . when i insert a midi track meter lock on full peak and it stays like that always. on audio tracks it's all ok with meters. Also the peak leds on top of meter are always on even on channels with nothing playing. If you can make it stereo metering because d8b read stereo . aux's are working great with buses labeling. numpad is working ok too. loop ok. the button used for saving project is very far to reach . change it to store. button nº 44 on picture.
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I forgot that Sonar does not provide VU for MIDI. That should be fixed (stay at 0). "Save" is on HUI "In" button now (should be 44 on d8b).
Stereo VU will take some time, not till the end of holidays.
I do not know what can force peak values stay, the documentation is probably incomplete. I will try to search in the internet, but at the moment I am pessimistic with that. Sorry.
HUI emulator I use does not show such symptoms. Can it be some local setting on d8b to setup decay time/peak stay in HUI?
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I will confirm settings on d8b. Thank you very much and have a good holiday.
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Hi AZ. midi tracks working normally( sonar don't transmit meters with midi tracks.) save buttons it's very well placed now. red peak lights (the last meter segment) still the same. I create a new track and light is already on when appears on screen. the meters are working ok only with that exception. d8b don´t have settings for hui meters. It's possible to control prochannel eq ? I know that at least on cubase was possible to control native eq.
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With peak we can try to experiment. There are 128 theoretical possible numbers to send, the documentation mention 24 which I use. I will give you the instructions next week.
We can control ProChannel EQ/Compressor, also any other VST(i). There are several modes for that. I let you know when I am ready to continue.
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Hi AZ, I've got some codes ready for you . When you are ready tell me and i'll have more codes. Hope you are having great holidays.
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Hi AZ, I've got some codes ready for you . When you are ready tell me and i'll have more codes. Hope you are having great holidays.
Holidays was good, thanks. Unfortunately I am suffering from bad cold, so I am forced to do nothing this week...
But please send me the codes and functionality description and I will implement that once back in "operation mode".
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i hope you get better soon. Rest and stay in a hot bed... already sent you an email with the codes .
Those codes are for implementing the prochannel eq and compressor control, and may be vst control. I will send you an updated list.
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I have updated AZCtrl, please download b304 and the preset.
VU meters should show separate values for left and right, please check that is really works.
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Hi AZ. tested controller 0.4 r2 b306 with latest preset . stereo meters only shows metering on left side (every channel has two meters for left and right side on hui monitor). you have updated the preset on huiv2 ? that's the one right?
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I will think what can it be... The only HUI emulator I have has only one level meter. And it somehow reacts on both channel.
I you sure the metering is for the left side? I mean have you tried to pan right to see the effect?
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I have re-uploaded the preset. This time I ask you to do some "debugging"...
Stop transport (that is important there is no real changes in level) and do not touch d8b during the whole test:
* open AZCtrl interface
* switch to the "Logic" tab
* select "((None)) _LevelTest" Logical Control (the first in the list, probably you get it automatically)
* select the first (and the only) Action in the list ("Ch:1 KP:0 Value(14bit): 0").
And now do the following in a loop:
1) select some "value" (initially "0", right lower corner drop box), see later for explanation
2) press "Play" button
3) notice the changes in the level indicator for the first strip
What is expected:
* values 0..12 should set the level for the Left channel
* values 64...76 should set the level for the Right channel
* theoretically setting the value for a channel should not affect the other channel
* I have no idea what other values produce, but you can test
Since there is 128 possible values, that can take a while, but then we know for sure how your d8b is reacting on all levels. I think that is valuable information.
For your mail, I will proceed with the configuration (as in the last mail). It will take some time since I am busy these days.
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That was my fault, thanks for testing and reporting. So the right channel is 16+ and not 64+.
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New version of preset is uploaded.
ProChannel EQ mode is added, "EQ" button toggle the mode (may be with LED, can not test):
* Faders/Encoders/"Parameter" Encoders (on the right side)
* "Mute" buttons toggle corresponding band on/off, "Solo" toggle Bell/Shelf (LF,HF), EQ and a whole (LMF), Gross (HMF)
* Channel display shows the band name
* Bid display unchanged (still showing Strip names), Select buttons still switch channels. I think that is practical.
The only parameter not covered is EQ Type. I propose Fader 7 (4 states, bad for buttons, bad for encoders)... What you think?
Also in case you start using it you probably notice we need "Fine" mode for encoders. Which button do you think we can use to switch Coarse/Fine?
4 Parameter encoders are currently not use in the "Mix", we have Default (Pan) mode and "Send/Aux" submodes there. My proposals:
* volumes for 4 sends for the focused strip
* Gain ... but for 4 strips only
* may be some specific parameters from specific plug-ins you normally use on strips?
Good luck with testing, you probably need it (I was unable to completely check the changes) ;)
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New version of preset is uploaded.
ProChannel EQ mode is added, "EQ" button toggle the mode (may be with LED, can not test):
* Faders/Encoders/"Parameter" Encoders (on the right side)
* "Mute" buttons toggle corresponding band on/off, "Solo" toggle Bell/Shelf (LF,HF), EQ and a whole (LMF), Gross (HMF)
* Channel display shows the band name
* Bid display unchanged (still showing Strip names), Select buttons still switch channels. I think that is practical.
The only parameter not covered is EQ Type. I propose Fader 7 (4 states, bad for buttons, bad for encoders)... What you think?
Also in case you start using it you probably notice we need "Fine" mode for encoders. Which button do you think we can use to switch Coarse/Fine?
4 Parameter encoders are currently not use in the "Mix", we have Default (Pan) mode and "Send/Aux" submodes there. My proposals:
* volumes for 4 sends for the focused strip
* Gain ... but for 4 strips only
* may be some specific parameters from specific plug-ins you normally use on strips?
Good luck with testing, you probably need it (I was unable to completely check the changes) ;)
Thank you so much. I was getting crazy that my novation lunchkey isn't compatible with Sonar
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Is this the preset to use for Komplete Kontrol keyboards? I have tried both versions posted here with azctrl_0_5r8b398. I followed the setup instructions, but the keyboard transport controls don't work.
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Even if the keyboard can send transport as HUI, this preset is not the way to use it.
NI keyboards use different approaches, early keyboards was emulating MCU. Then the have switched to OSC only. Then they have introduced MIDI protocol again:
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360006299698-MCU-support-for-Komplete-Kontrol-keyboards-S-Series-MK2-A-Series-M32-en-us-
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I have an S series Mk I, so those instructions don't apply unfortunately. However, I found a copy of the MackieTransport.spp preset I used to use and that works w/ AZ Controller.
But there's a strange bug where the In Port setting in Cakewalk's Control Surfaces setting for AZ Controller switches itself away from the correct driver (Komplete Kontrol DAW) to something else at random and the transport controls on the keyboard stop working until I set it back :/ I never saw this happen before.
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Cakewalk has long standing strange behavior with MIDI ports... I do not remember they have ever improved it, but I remember they have made it worse at Platinum times.
As long as all orphan MIDI devices are removed in the Windows Device manager, in case there was duplications the device is reinstalled (f.e. keyboard was connect to some USB port and then moved to the other, both devices should be removed first), Cakewalk MIDI INI file is re-generated after removing and MIDI configuration does not change, Cakewalk can perform stable.
If there is at least one device which is "unstable", f.e. my X-Touch Mini sometimes can not initialize itself or "disconnects" once the DAW closes, that bring complete havoc into Cakewalk MIDI connectivity. Sometimes it still show correct port in settings, but in fact using different one. Nothing I can fix, at least as long as I use Cakewalk provided MIDI ports.
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I know the trick of deleting ttseq.ini when I lose MIDI connectivity. Then Cake regenerates the MIDI port connections and things work again.
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I've been trying HUIv2.spp with a Mackie MCU Pro set in HUI mode and two XT extension units. An impressive amount of the functionality is already working in this version, thanks! One thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to set the starting track number for each instance of the Azslow controller. (the first one should start at Track 1, the second one at Track 9, and the third at Track 17). In the Cakewalk MCU mode control there is a "configure layout" button where you use the 1st pan dial on each unit to set the starting track number), but there doesn't appear to be anything like that in the Azslow controller. Thanks for any help you can provide.
Also, it sounded like there might have been a more recent version of the HUI.spp under development, but I didn't find it on the site.
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I am not sure why you try to use MCU in HUI mode, but there is nothing wrong with that. Note that HUI.spp is so limited, you will need to invest quite some time to make it close to available standard mackie functionality.
Original Mackie plug-in(s) a kind of "cooperate" when MCU+XT is configured. Independent AZ Controller instances do not communicate with each other. While you can set WAI (by mouse or special Actions List to mimic Mackie approach), you can not sync them later (f.e. if you move the first instance WAI you can not ask other instances to move).
AZ controller supports "cooperative" mode a bit different way: you declare one instance as "Master" and other as "Slaves". In slaves, you just set "block all midi" in options and never touch anything else. The whole configuration happens in the Master. So you get one logical device, composed from 2 (or more) physical. That works with any devices (it is not limited by MCU+XT).
But there are consequences. You will need to create (duplicate) all controls for extra devices and explicitly configure/MIDI learn them. So like you have 24 strips instead of 8. In such configuration there is just one WAI, so moving it will affect everything.
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Im looking for some knowladge, I just got a Mackie HUI, I did follow every step to use it with AZ and the HUI.spp v2 but now Im stucked in some strange situation.
The Mackie HUI can be controlled using the pc, anything you do inside Cakewalk the Mackie will assume, but if you try to change anything in your project using Mackie nothing happens, I can try to select Solo or Mute a channel, moving a fader and the Mackie doesnt assume any change.
Im using Cakewalk Platinium, the MIDI interface is a M-Audio UNO and the OS is Win10.
Any help is more then welcome!
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When you operate Mackie, you should see changed in the "Last MIDI event". That will also indicate which controls are configured (far from all in this preset) and which not.
If you don't see any changes, check you set MIDI input in Control Surfaces correctly.
BTW you will get more functionality with Mackie plug-in in HUI(beta) mode.