Author Topic: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab  (Read 226 times)

Offline randro

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Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« on: May 05, 2021, 12:27:52 AM »
Hi there,
I am running CbB 2021.04 build 144 (latest) on a Windows 10 computer. I have a newly purchased Faderport v2 running in Logic(MCU) mode. I installed AZ Controller (azctrl_0_5r9b412) as recommended, and loaded "AZ Faderport V2 0.0.spp" preset. I have basic control functions (transport control, mute, solo, arm). However, I am not able to use "channel" to select tracks.
Also I do am not able to use pan or RTZ or a few other functions that would be nice to have.
Is there further setup required even after loading the preset? If so, please direct me to the location where I can find setup information.
Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 12:30:06 AM by randro »

Offline azslow3

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2021, 08:27:09 AM »
Hello,
everything described in the post where you have downloaded preset should work. But what is not mentioned is not defined.
F.e. there is no RTZ, but Pan should be possible.

Note, you need to put the device into "native" mode. In MCU mode it will not work correctly (without modifications in preset).
To check, with AZ Controller GUI open, press/turn controls watching "Last MIDI event". When in correct mode, you should see
correct control names. In wrong mode, you will see wrong names or just unassigned MIDI message.

AZ Controller is flexible. If something you need is not defined and possible in Cakewalk, that can be added. Theoretically  you
can do this yourself, practically it can take long time to learn how. So, once you get to work what is already defined, create
the list of wishes (Control/combination -> function). F.e. "Long press Stop -> RTZ". The functionality can be different from labels.
And I will try to extend the preset (f.e. mentioned RTZ is what I normally define for myself, I don't like button combinations for
that function).

But please do NOT just list all possible labels on the device... Defining presets takes my time, if something is "written" but
no one use it in practice, implementing that is just wasting time. In fact I have to spend more time then theoretically required,
since I do not have the device.


Offline randro

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2021, 01:28:52 AM »
Hello,
I got the Faderport into native mode and I have been learning from your guide how to set up the plug-in. I saved the rest of the button names and assigned their numbers. I have attached an updated preset file. Here is what I’m interested in implementing, in order of priority. I know this is a lot. If you don’t have time to do everything, please provide some examples so I can try to do it myself.

One long press “stop” -> RTZ

Pressing “master“ switches focus to bus pane. Can move between master and buses using encoder wheel or prev/next. Push knob button to reset master Fader to 0 dB

Pressing “channel“ switches focus to tracks pane.  Can move between tracks using encoder wheel or prev/next.

FF or REW speeds up as you hold the button down

Pressing “marker“ function is fine. Please add push knob button to insert marker.

Pressing “pan“ allows you to use the knob to pan the channel or bus.

Latch “shift “button until another button is pressed.

“Shift” + “scroll” allows you to use the knob for horizontal zooming. Prev/next can be used for vertical zooming.

“shift” + “prev  → undo

“shift” + “next” → redo

Pressing “section“ allows you to use the encoder to nudge whatever event is selected.

“Shift“ + “master“ -> track view

“Shift“ + “click“ -> console view

“Shift“ + “section“ -> piano roll view

“Shift“ + “marker“ -> matrix view

Pressing “write“ illuminates LED beneath write button

Pressing “read“ illuminates LED beneath  read button

Thank you so much for your help!!

Offline azslow3

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2021, 04:49:26 PM »
Hello,
I got the Faderport into native mode and I have been learning from your guide how to set up the plug-in. I saved the rest of the button names and assigned their numbers. I have attached an updated preset file. Here is what I’m interested in implementing, in order of priority. I know this is a lot. If you don’t have time to do everything, please provide some examples so I can try to do it myself.
We can make it, in several iterations. I don't have the device so there can be bugs. Also your list of operations is at some point questionable (see inline).

But first of all, please try to not break things:
1. when you save SPP preset, please use Cakewalk Plug-in Manager from utilities menu. And not the button in the AZ Controller Options tab, it does NOT save SPP preset.
2. please be careful by manipulating Hardware tab (and in general other places). You have created the second hardware context to two controls and attached logical controls there which have nothing to do with the control. AZ Controller has tons of tricky options/possibilities for special purpose. Using them randomly can be very confusing...
2. please be more precise with terms (see comments inline)

Quote
One long press “stop” -> RTZ
Done (~1 second)

Quote
Pressing “master“ switches focus to bus pane.
Done (LED lit when controlling buses). But works as toggle, so it switch between Tracks and Buses. That is synced with mouse operations (if you switch to buses by mouse,
the surface will also switch). Theoretically it can be decoupled, but then surface should not follow current strip as well. Such feature is rarely useful for one strip surfaces,
but you are free to say you want it.

Quote
Can move between master and buses using encoder wheel or prev/next. Push knob button to reset master Fader to 0 dB
Prev/next should navigate between strips. If they have LEDs (do they?), they should indicate (more or less) the possibility. So f.e. Next LED should not lit
when you are on the last strip.

For the rest... Sorry, but you are not using valid for Cakewalk terms.
Cakewalk has Tracks, Buses and Mains. All can be controlled, but only Track and Buses can get the focus. Nothing in Cakewalk is called "Master". People usually
name one bus as "Master". AZ Controller supports operating named strips, so it is possible to define "Set focus (change volume, etc.) to the Bus named 'Master'".
So please clarify what you mean by "move between master and buses".

For the encoder, please think more carefully. It can control one thing at a time. Pressing can do something else, but it also should be well defined and better (for you and
other) produce expected behavior. I don't thing resetting current strip volume is expected when the knob operates as a jogger. So I have not defined any new knob operations yet.


Quote
Pressing “channel“ switches focus to tracks pane.  Can move between tracks using encoder wheel or prev/next.
As I have mentioned, Master button is currently defined as toggle between Tracks and Buses. So another button is not needed.
At the moment defined the same as Master (toggle) with reversed LED.

Quote
FF or REW speeds up as you hold the button down
Shuttle like functionality using 2 buttons? That has never worked for me. I call what Cakewalk calls FF/REW, anything else is looking for troubles.

Quote
Pressing “marker“ function is fine. Please add push knob button to insert marker.
You mean "m" command? It opens dialog, you will need computer keyboard then. So, what the point to start the procedure from surface?

Quote
Pressing “pan“ allows you to use the knob to pan the channel or bus.
Pan currently switch fader to pan. Do you want it stay on Volume and knob switch from jog to pan?

Quote
Latch “shift “button until another button is pressed.
Should work like that, for buttons with defined Shift function.

Quote
“Shift” + “scroll” allows you to use the knob for horizontal zooming. Prev/next can be used for vertical zooming.
Not yet. We need some good global knob strategy.

Quote
“shift” + “prev  → undo

“shift” + “next” → redo
Done.

Quote
Pressing “section“ allows you to use the encoder to nudge whatever event is selected.
What you mean by "nudge whatever..."? I can only execute particular command.

Quote
“Shift“ + “master“ -> track view

“Shift“ + “click“ -> console view

“Shift“ + “section“ -> piano roll view

“Shift“ + “marker“ -> matrix view

Pressing “write“ illuminates LED beneath write button

Pressing “read“ illuminates LED beneath  read button
Done.

Read/Write control automation of the fader now, so including pan and send volume/pan. LEDs should mirror current state.

Offline randro

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2021, 02:59:08 AM »
Hello Alexey,
Apologies if I was vague in describing some functions. I will try to be more clear this time.
Just so I am sure, strip=track=channel, yes?


Quote
Pressing “master“ switches focus to bus pane.
Done (LED lit when controlling buses). But works as toggle, so it switch between Tracks and Buses. That is synced with mouse operations (if you switch to buses by mouse,
the surface will also switch). Theoretically it can be decoupled, but then surface should not follow current strip as well. Such feature is rarely useful for one strip surfaces,
but you are free to say you want it.

Works good. The only thing is that the "Master" LED is on all the time. Should be off when focus is on tracks.

Quote
Can move between master and buses using encoder wheel or prev/next. Push knob button to reset master Fader to 0 dB
Prev/next should navigate between strips. If they have LEDs (do they?), they should indicate (more or less) the possibility. So f.e. Next LED should not lit
when you are on the last strip.

Prev/Next do work for navigating between tracks. However, LEDs do not come on under any circumstance

For the rest... Sorry, but you are not using valid for Cakewalk terms.
Cakewalk has Tracks, Buses and Mains. All can be controlled, but only Track and Buses can get the focus. Nothing in Cakewalk is called "Master". People usually
name one bus as "Master". AZ Controller supports operating named strips, so it is possible to define "Set focus (change volume, etc.) to the Bus named 'Master'".
So please clarify what you mean by "move between master and buses".

My mistake, I meant buses.

For the encoder, please think more carefully. It can control one thing at a time. Pressing can do something else, but it also should be well defined and better (for you and
other) produce expected behavior. I don't thing resetting current strip volume is expected when the knob operates as a jogger. So I have not defined any new knob operations yet.

I agree that the knob should be used for jogging and prev/next should always be dedicated to moving between tracks. The only thing is that if you have a large project,
and you want to move from track 3 to track 50, you will need to press "next" 47 times. Can you make so you can move through tracks continuously if the "prev" or "next" pad is held down?


Quote
FF or REW speeds up as you hold the button down
Shuttle like functionality using 2 buttons?

No. In Studio One, when you hold down REV or FF, the now time cursor goes faster and faster until you release the button.

Quote
Pressing “marker“ function is fine. Please add push knob button to insert marker.
You mean "m" command? It opens dialog, you will need computer keyboard then. So, what the point to start the procedure from surface?

Yes, pushing knob button will open the marker ("m") dialog

Quote
Pressing “pan“ allows you to use the knob to pan the channel or bus.
Pan currently switch fader to pan. Do you want it stay on Volume and knob switch from jog to pan?

Yes, when "pan" is lit, fader is volume and knob is pan


Quote
“Shift” + “scroll” allows you to use the knob for horizontal zooming. Prev/next can be used for vertical zooming.
Not yet. We need some good global knob strategy.

I will have to think about this one. Any suggestions for zooming horizontally or vertically?

Quote
Pressing “section“ allows you to use the encoder to nudge whatever event is selected.
What you mean by "nudge whatever..."? I can only execute particular command.

More on this later



Quote
“Shift“ + “master“ -> track view

“Shift“ + “click“ -> console view

“Shift“ + “section“ -> piano roll view not working

“Shift“ + “marker“ -> matrix view

Pressing “write“ illuminates LED beneath write button

Pressing “read“ illuminates LED beneath  read button

All of the view selection combinations work except for piano roll view

Both "read" and "write" LEDs are on all the time. LEDs should mirror current state.


Offline azslow3

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2021, 07:42:27 AM »
Just so I am sure, strip=track=channel, yes?
I call "strip" track or bus.


Quote
Pressing “master“ switches focus to bus pane.
Works good. The only thing is that the "Master" LED is on all the time. Should be off when focus is on tracks.
I hope fixed

Quote
Prev/next should navigate between strips. If they have LEDs (do they?), they should indicate (more or less) the possibility. So f.e. Next LED should not lit
when you are on the last strip.
Prev/Next do work for navigating between tracks. However, LEDs do not come on under any circumstance
hopefully also fixed

Quote
For the encoder, please think more carefully. It can control one thing at a time. Pressing can do something else, but it also should be well defined and better (for you and
other) produce expected behavior. I don't thing resetting current strip volume is expected when the knob operates as a jogger. So I have not defined any new knob operations yet.
I agree that the knob should be used for jogging and prev/next should always be dedicated to moving between tracks. The only thing is that if you have a large project,
and you want to move from track 3 to track 50, you will need to press "next" 47 times. Can you make so you can move through tracks continuously if the "prev" or "next" pad is held down?

Once will define clear switch between knob operations, one of the modes can be strip navigation.

Quote
Shuttle like functionality using 2 buttons?
No. In Studio One, when you hold down REV or FF, the now time cursor goes faster and faster until you release the button.
Cakewalk is not Studio One ;)

Quote
You mean "m" command? It opens dialog, you will need computer keyboard then. So, what the point to start the procedure from surface?
Yes, pushing knob button will open the marker ("m") dialog
As I have wrote, if you need to use computer keyboard in any case, pressing M is not hard. Can be on knob button, but if it reset volume or jog... it can't add marker.

Quote
Pan currently switch fader to pan. Do you want it stay on Volume and knob switch from jog to pan?
Yes, when "pan" is lit, fader is volume and knob is pan
What is with automation buttons then? Should they work with Pan in this case?

Quote
I will have to think about this one. Any suggestions for zooming horizontally or vertically?
Will add later.


Quote
“Shift“ + “section“ -> piano roll view not working
Check with Last MIDI event "Section" button is correctly assigned. I don't see the bug in logic...

Quote
Pressing “write“ illuminates LED beneath write button

Pressing “read“ illuminates LED beneath  read button

Both "read" and "write" LEDs are on all the time. LEDs should mirror current state.
Hopefully fixed. But it seems like I have bug in the code.

More Thursday (we have holidays here)


Offline randro

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2021, 12:15:52 AM »
Hello Alexey,

All LEDs are working correctly now!

Quote
For the encoder, please think more carefully. It can control one thing at a time. Pressing can do something else, but it also should be well defined and better (for you and
other) produce expected behavior. I don't thing resetting current strip volume is expected when the knob operates as a jogger. So I have not defined any new knob operations yet.

I agree that the knob should be used for jogging and prev/next should always be dedicated to moving between tracks. The only thing is that if you have a large project,
and you want to move from track 3 to track 50, you will need to press "next" 47 times. Can you make so you can move through tracks continuously if the "prev" or "next" pad is held down?

Once will define clear switch between knob operations, one of the modes can be strip navigation.

Lets keep the knob function for jogging. I would just like a way to move between tracks continuously, without having to press "prev" or "next" repeatedly. Holding either button down would move through tracks successively until released (long press until the desired track is reached).


Quote
You mean "m" command? It opens dialog, you will need computer keyboard then. So, what the point to start the procedure from surface?
Yes, pushing knob button will open the marker ("m") dialog
As I have wrote, if you need to use computer keyboard in any case, pressing M is not hard. Can be on knob button, but if it reset volume or jog... it can't add marker.

I am OK with using "M" in the keyboard

Quote
Pan currently switch fader to pan. Do you want it stay on Volume and knob switch from jog to pan?
Yes, when "pan" is lit, fader is volume and knob is pan
What is with automation buttons then? Should they work with Pan in this case?

I am OK with leaving pan on the fader, no change needed

Quote
I will have to think about this one. Any suggestions for zooming horizontally or vertically?
Will add later.


Quote
“Shift“ + “section“ -> piano roll view not working
Check with Last MIDI event "Section" button is correctly assigned. I don't see the bug in logic...

I checked Last MIDI event, "Section" is CH:1 N:60...it is assigned correctly

Thanks again for all your help

« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 09:53:47 PM by randro »

Offline Bassman

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2021, 02:54:48 PM »
Hi:)

sorry, when I disturb this conversation, but:

>>>I agree that the knob should be used for jogging and prev/next should always be dedicated to moving between tracks.
>>>The only thing is that if you have a large project, and you want to move from track 3 to track 50, you will need to press
>>>"next" 47 times. Can you make so you can move through tracks continuously if the "prev" or "next" pad is held down?

Why not have a Slider or a Rotor for Track Switching?

Please look here:

https://youtu.be/ivSOvTDYcsI

With only Track View opened it is very fast! When Multidock is opened the display reacts a bit slow....

Greetz,
Bassman.

Offline randro

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2021, 07:22:44 PM »
Hi Bassman,
Thanks for your suggestion, but the Faderport has only one fader and one rotary encoder,
both of which need to be used for other functions.

Offline Bassman

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2021, 07:41:04 PM »
Hi :)

You could use next/previous as switches.
What I mean:

1. If you press Next and immediately Previous (within ~1 sec.), it works like a Shift 2 ON/OFF Button.
2. If you press Previous and immediately Next (within ~1 sec.), it works like a Ctrl or Alt Button ON/OFF.
3. If Shift or Ctrl/Alt is ON the Slider or Rotor works as Track +- Slider/Rotor.
4. You can use long press and double press functions for these buttons, so a lot more possibilities.
5. With Shift 2 ON or Ctrl/Alt ON you have much more possibilities with all other Buttons.
6. More Buttons with Shift AND Ctrl/Alt ON.

Just as an idea ;)
Greetz,
Bassman.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 06:58:25 AM by Bassman »

Offline randro

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 11:44:18 PM »
Hey, good ideas, maybe Alexey will consider these options when he returns from his holiday.

Offline azslow3

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #11 on: Today at 06:04:12 PM »
Overloading controls is possible (up to unusable numbers...) in AZ Controller. But it is better not abuse that.

In attached version:
*Section, Channel and Scroll switch the knob mode
*Section mode is jogger (as it was before, so press+turn means "by measures")
*Channel mode should switch the strip, like next/previous (but obviously faster). Pressing reset parameter controlled by fader (volume/pan or send volume/pan)
*Scroll is scrolling, vertical/horizontal is switched by the button
*Shift+Scroll switch to Zoom mode, LED should blink in that mode. May be better make it toggle, without shift. So pressing scroll when already in scroll/zoom change the mode. But that is up to you.

When calling piano-roll, check overview tab. Do you see "Piano roll" command listed? If yet, there is some bug in Cakewalk. Otherwise I will check one more time what can be wrong...

Offline Bassman

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #12 on: Today at 08:34:26 PM »
HI:)

Don't want to mess up Alexeys Preset for sure, but here a small preset with 2 Buttons (called Shift and Ctrl in the preset).  Just for to see how this works for WAI Up/Down.

1. If you press Ctrl the WAI goes down 1 Track.
2. If you press Shift the WAI goes up 1 Track.
3. If you press first Ctrl and within 1 Second Shift the WAI goes up 8 Tracks as long as you press again Shift within 1 second.
4. If you press first Shift and within 1 Second Ctrl the WAI goes down 8 Tracks as long as you press Ctrl again within 1 second.

So faster WAI Up/Down Buttons without having more knobs.

5. You could use this to activate a Modifier
6. Press first Ctrl then Shift activates/deactivates Modifier 1
7. Press first Shift then Ctrl activates/deactivates Modifier 2
8. Add functions to your Knobs with Modifiers.

But as Alexey said, this makes the preset complicated, so better not to overload it;)

Greetz,
Bassman.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:50:28 PM by Bassman »

Offline azslow3

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Re: Faderport and Cakewalk by Bandlab
« Reply #13 on: Today at 08:42:52 PM »
One comment about Piano Roll. Check that you can see it at all, I mean show it by other methods. If a project has no MIDI, Piano roll is grayed in menu. If it is not MuliDocked, it can appear in invisible area (especially after monitor configuration is changed).