Author Topic: LPD8 control  (Read 7251 times)

Offline marcost

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LPD8 control
« on: July 18, 2017, 10:28:04 AM »
Hi,

Firstly can I say thank-you for creating, maintaining and supporting these important tools for Cakewalk! I wonder if you can point me in the right direction?

My system: Sonar Platinum/W7/Mackie MCU pro/Akai LPD8

Objective

I use the Mackie to control basic fader, pan, transport etc within its limitations (although I will check out your mod!). It works fine.

I want to use the 8 rotaries on the LPD8 to control plug-in parameters e.g. EQ settings. I want to maybe add one or two more LPD8's to give 16 or 24 rotaries so that I change multiple parameters without using bank change.

Problem 1

Although the LPD8 works as an ACT controller, Sonar 'forgets' the assignments I make e.g. Waves SSL channel EQ - I assign all the rotaries and it works fine. I then go to another plug-in e.g. a compressor and assign its controls to the rotaries and that works as well. I then go back to the EQ and the controls are all messed up.

I tried the AZ ACT fix (make settings/exit Sonar/ run ACT fix & save/ re-start Sonar) but it doesn't fix the problem.

I conclude that this is a known ACT bug and there is no reliable workround(?). Therefore I try AZ Controller!

Problem 2

I have set up the LPD8 to work with AZ Controller and it works fine in the 'quick start' preset. I then tried to create 8 rotaries so that I could control plug-in parameters. At one point, I did manage to get ACT to recognise the rotaries and I tried binding them to parameters. However, I found that each rotary moved all of the parameters I had bound.

I have since tried many settings but with no luck. I can't even get ACT to recognise the rotaries now!


Questions


Could you maybe help me:

1) Is the basic ACT behaviour (without using AZ Controller) a known bug or am I doing something wrong? maybe something to do with Waves plug-in being VST3?

2) Can I use AZ controller in order to have two or three LPD8's connected? I think the answer is yes because I have seen adding additional hardware referred to in your notes.

3) Could you point me in the direction of using AZ controller to have the 8 rotaries available to control individual plug-in parameters?


I hope I have given enough information to be understood. If not, please ask me.

I will be very grateful for any help!


Thanks,

Martin


Offline azslow3

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 12:16:30 PM »
Hello and welcome!

For plug-in mapping. From your description I can not guess exact place you have the problem. Do you mean the mapping is lost immediately once you leave the plug-in, inside the same Sonar session? In any case, I recommend to start with "clean" mapping. Using windows explorer visit "%APPDATA%\Cakewalk\ACT Data" and DELETE all XML files there (with Sonar closed!). Then try to map as usual.
VST3 had some problems in the past, but it you use latest Platinum that should work. You can use AZ Controller, "ACT" tab, to see current mapping for current plug-in (ACT MIDI plug-in does not show it right...). And you can use AZ ACT Fix to revise the mappings (and till some degree change them). If for some reason nothing can work (I have not observed that so far), there is still "manual" mapping procedure available, really manually editing XML files or quite convenient (once you understand how to use it) ACT Editor from MarKo. So any mapping problem can be solved.

For several LPD8. That is not going to work. Sonar recognize devices by names, LPD8 will have the same names. Not with LPD, but there was many reports for other controllers confirming that statement. Let me propose several possible directions:
I) if you are ready to work with encoders instead of knobs, that has several advantages: (1) parameters are always in sync when you change plug-in, no need to "catch" current value (2) you can have several "resolutions" (with AZ Controller), some parameters are good to control with fine precision (think about EQ frequency) (3) since you do not have "catch", you can switch "banks" without consequences. You have MCU Pro, so you know how encoders work (also with 2 resolution, instant indication and switching). BTW you can use MCU Pro to control any FX (even without my mod), you just need to edit INI file manually to defined correct mapping for each plug-in. You can get X-Touch Compact for 16 encoders + 8 motor faders + buttons (almost MCU Pro), configured for plug-in control only (I will help with setup), you can get BCR2000 just for 24 encoders (has MarKo ultimate preset, cheaper then X-Touch Compact), finally you can get X-Touch Mini with 8 encoders and buttons, you will need to switch banks but with encoders that is not a problem (cheap, does not take space).
II) if you prefer "normal" knobs, check Novation LaunchControl (16 knobs) and LauchControl XL (24 knobs), both with buttons (LED feedback can work with AZ Controller!). For 16 knob variant there is already ProChannel EQ preset (http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,274.msg1289.html#msg1289)

Please realize which way you want control plug-ins. There are two:
* ACT Dynamic mapping. You "learn" controls (when it works, at some point it will), so that is convenient. There is only one consequence: you can not control more then one plug-in at any particular time.
* Direct control. The (only) way MCU Pro control FXes. Each parameter should be manually mapped (in INI for MCU Pro, "programming" in AZ Controller). Also that aged API has some bugs in Sonar (CW has switched to ACT Dynamic mapping only with Roland V-Studio, so not checking/updating direct approach. I have tried to workaround sonar crashing bugs which was already spotted, but there can be more). But you can control several plug-ins at the same time. Mentioned LauchControl preset works that way, BCR2000 preset from MarKo has "ProChannel" mode and control all standard ProChannel modules for one strip in parallel

Now for LPD8 with AZ Controller:
1) Reset the configuration ("Options"/"Tweak current configuration")
2) Do "Quick start" again (you probably know for the second time you need less then a minute...)
3) select the first Action in the list (Strip), change "Strip" type to "ACT". Select "Rotor" "1" in parameters.
4) Check you can control/learn the first parameter (use "ACT" tab in AZ Controller to see what R1 should control), only when everything is fine:
5) in the Options tab, Hardware Control, press "Dup" 7 times.
6) In the logic tab go throw new knobs and in "ACT" action parameters change "Rotor" "1" to "2", "3", ... "8"
7) In the hardware tab, "Assign MIDI" to knobs 2-8 corresponding controls.

That was a lot of information, some of which can sound complicated. If you want, we can schedule some time to speak on Skype. Speaking is faster then typing  ;)   

Offline marcost

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 12:47:33 PM »
Hi!

Thanks for the super-fast and detailed reply!

I will try and respond to each point:

Plug-in mapping - yes it is lost immediately within the same session. I will try your suggestions when I get home, thank you.

Multiple LPD8's - that is really good to know, thank you. I will not proceed with this idea. I had already considered the BCR2000 (I own a BCF which I used before I bought the Mackie) and I would really prefer the benefits of endless encoders and their LED indicators. I think I will find a BCR2000 and use AZ Controller with marko's template! Are you saying that the BCR LED's will reflect the position of all assigned parameters in a plug-in, when focus is given? I had thought that some VST's do not 'send' their status.

Mackie - I looked at your sample .ini and can see that I could edit this to do what I want, thanks! Can it also be mapped to non plug-in functions, e.g. 'Send 1' control for each channel across the strip? At the moment, the Mackie only shows the first two sends by channel IIRC.

Direct/ACT mode - to understand correctly, if I have a BCR2000 using AZ Controller, this will be in Direct mode and I assign all the parameters within AZ Controller (eg within marko preset)? And I could then control plug-ins without having to open them explicity or they must be open but don't have to be focused?

Thank you for the step guide on the LPD8, I will try that tonight!

Many thanks for your help!!!

Best regards,

Martin

Offline azslow3

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 02:08:49 PM »
Multiple LPD8's - that is really good to know, thank you. I will not proceed with this idea. I had already considered the BCR2000 (I own a BCF which I used before I bought the Mackie) and I would really prefer the benefits of endless encoders and their LED indicators. I think I will find a BCR2000 and use AZ Controller with marko's template! Are you saying that the BCR LED's will reflect the position of all assigned parameters in a plug-in, when focus is given? I had thought that some VST's do not 'send' their status.
Check the pdf http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,301.msg1739.html#msg1739
MarKo preset use BOTH methods, in ProChannel mode you control ProChannel modules of current strip (no need to focus them), in ACT mode you control whatever plug-in is in focus. LEDs always reflect current position. As I wrote, that is most sophisticated preset ever existed for AZ Controller. And in turn it makes BCR2000 most powerful controller for Sonar ever existed (it beats in functionality MCU Pro and VS-700, apart from touch sensitive automation overwrites since it has no such controls in hardware...)

Quote
Mackie - I looked at your sample .ini and can see that I could edit this to do what I want, thanks! Can it also be mapped to non plug-in functions, e.g. 'Send 1' control for each channel across the strip? At the moment, the Mackie only shows the first two sends by channel IIRC.
It should be able to control more sends. But it is not possible to control sends to AUX tracks/patch points (with whatever surface) because CW has not implemented that. Also sends to side-chains are buggy. There are parts which I can not implement, even using workarounds.

Offline marcost

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 03:27:34 PM »
Ok I understand, thank you again. I will read the pdf and purchase a BCR and let you know when I have it working!

Best regards,

Martin

Offline marcost

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 10:27:06 AM »
Hi,

Just a quick update:

LPD8 working now, thank you!

MCU Pro - I added your dll and ini and now have full functionality for the Pro Channel EQ and compressor using the Mackie buttons - Great!

I have a couple of questions on the Mackie -

I still can't access any plug-ins with the plug-in button, should I be able to? Using the old ini, I could access the first plugin in the  FX bin I think.

Secondly, I  have Softube Pro Channel modules installed. If I set up a Pro channel with Cakewalk compressor and press Compressor button on Mackie, then exchange it for the Softube FET Compressor, I can control the FET parameters with the Mackie. But if I then press another button on the Mackie (eg EQ) and then press the Compressor button, it says 'no-plug-ins'. Any ideas?

I will test any of your suggestions and give feedback!

Many thanks

Martin

Offline azslow3

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 12:06:07 PM »
MackieControl (even my mod) is unable to control any pro-channel modes except EQ and (standard) Compressors. Unmodified plug-in controls the first ProChannel module instead of EQ, but the mapping is not possible to set. You can temporarily "trick" moded version, but as you have found it detects the "trick" and stop working. That is known limitation.

You should be able to control an number of plug-ins in FX bin. If I remember correctly, to switch between FX plug-ins you can use channel or bank buttons (check the documentation). Note that by default, ProChannel EQ and Comp are also included into the list (as first). Moded version has a configuration check box to switch that off (so no show ProChannel in PlugIn mode).

I have asked about the need to improve Moded version before. The feedback was complete silence. Now I have long standing (but not top priority) plan to rework Mackie preset inside AZ Controller, so I am not ready to improve Moded version of the original plug-in (I have not time for that and once new preset is ready for AZ Controller, Mackie plug-in, moded or not, will be "obsolete" in any case).

Offline marcost

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2017, 02:08:51 PM »
Thank you, I will check tonight that I can move through the fx plug-ins. The appearance of the ProChannel EQ confused me!

Understand completely, let me know when you get round to working on the AZ preset and I will help if I can!

Regards

Offline marcost

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2017, 05:05:33 PM »
Hi again!

Just to say that I have bought a BCR2000 and have it fully up and working with AZController and Marko B9 preset. As I have the MCU pro for volume and pan, I use the BCR for ACT control of EQ and Compressor plug-ins, so finally I have a full hardware 'console' to mix with. Fantastic!

Thanks,

Martin

Offline marcost

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 08:37:40 PM »
Spoke too soon - started up tonight and the BCR will not control the mapped plug-ins  :-\

AZ Display shows the correct mapping and the values change when I move the BCR dials, but the plug-in does not respond.

Any ideas?

Offline marcost

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Re: LPD8 control
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 08:51:30 PM »
Scratch that - sorted. Somehow 'Bypass all effects' had been activated. Didn't even know that existed! Rogue midi signal?

Regards