Author Topic: BCR2000-preset, beta 3  (Read 59941 times)

Offline MarKo

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BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« on: July 05, 2015, 10:43:48 PM »
Hi all,

Ok, it was very hot - but here is the next step forward with the BCR2000 preset.

Still some things to do, but many of the last ideas are implemented.
Additionally, some things are re-arranged, so please take a closer look at the included screenshot.
I tried to make the modes/functions understandable by different colors:
White labels ON the knobs are for 8Track-mode.
Colored labels below the knobs are for ProChannel-mode. Some have a second function with shift.
For all global buttons on the right: Labels in Blue are Shift-functions, and Green are Ctrl-functions.
Labels with a * mean that this state is shown by the LED.
Labels with two ** mean that this state is shown by blinking LED.
I hope you get it from the picture, except one knob (ACT), all should be labeled correctly.

Major improvements:
  • "sticky mode" with timeout (2 sec) for Shift/Ctrl, so you can press buttons one after another.
  • top row LED-rings can be toggled between VOL/VU
  • Speed-Dial for almost all Sonar-Controls (+/-)
  • Split & Cut Clips from BCR:
    for now this is done by keyboard-simulation (until implemented in AZ), so may not always be reliable.
    for me it´s working 100% reliable if i first: select the track, maximize it, and then click with mouse on any clip (this has to be done only ONCE for the track you work on).
    Because the actions are split into 2 parts for button press/release, it´s also better not to release it too fast!
    therfor these commands only work with the Ctrl-button held down (no sticky mode here).
    the same also for:
  • Gain Commands +/- 1/3 dB
    note: i removed some unwanted dB-presets in the Gain-dialog (0,5) so you will have todo either the same, or just edit the number key Up/downs in the function f_Gain.
    And of course you can extend the concept to more gain-stages (Mode:Gain).
  • Tempo changing by Knob R8:
    press Ctrl, then within the timeout (2 sec) touch the Knob (next to stop) and you are in Tempo-mode.
    When finished with tempo-changes, press Stop to close the Tempo-Window.
  • Jog/Scrub-Changes:
    Default is now Jog (without Scrubbing), this is better for selection.
    Scrub-Mode can be toggled On/Off with Ctrl+Jog
  • Escape-function:
    switches the BCR to preset nr. 2, so the BCR can be used with other gear.
    No need to send Prgm-Changes or the like.
some more additions, which i don´t remeber...

The attachement must be renamed to ZIP and consists of:
- Preset for BCR (SysEx) - this has not changed from Beta2, no need to load that again!
- the new Preset for AzCtrl BCR2000_beta3
- Higher Resolution Picture
Note: You need at least AZCtrl version 0.4r1b250 for this preset

First time users should read the threads to Beta1+2 for installing and additional infos.

Hope it works for you and as always, feedback is welcome.

martin (MarKo).
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 01:59:10 PM by MarKo »

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 01:52:22 PM »
Hi, I see you again have spend quite some time with plug-in... and so did I  ;)

On note, especially in case you use test version to create presets, it make sense to indicate since which plug-in version the preset is working. Something like: Note: for AZCtrl 0.4r1b253 and newer. The plug-in is (should be...) always backward compatible, so we hopefully do not need "till" version.

My changes:
1) The number of possible repeats for Key is increased to 100.
2) "Trigger" operation support (see http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,222.0.html). I have remembered the need for "loop back" of MIDI, it is handy when preparing presets for devices I do not have (which is usual) so I can Assign events and/or test the reaction on specific input values (not possible with "Play" button and especially required for testing "Note:OFF" actions). And since that can be used for delayed operations, I have made the decision to go this way instead of introducing yet another Action type which technically does exactly the same thing.

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 02:30:43 PM »
Quote
I see you again have spend quite some time with plug-in
yes, but i´m coming closer to a version that we could call stable and "ready to use".
i´ll wait for Stevies and Heinz´ feedback and try to finish the last ideas (still some...)
Quote
it make sense to indicate since which plug-in version
thanks for the reminder, and done. i had it just forgotten!

I´ll look at your changes during the week, i´m sure i will use triggers!

And we could check the compressor-types (screenshot).
I think there is something strange with my System (X3e).
Shouldn´t the comp-types be listed in the Filter-combo?
In the list of filters, i have only <other> which acts a little strange.
I found by trial that this is the compressor, and at the beginning it was working for PC76 U. Then i switched to PC4K S and it was working too! (except the 2 additional params).
Next day after opening project, none of them was working, except the first 2 params.
But if i switch types again 2 times, everything works again for BOTH types!
Do you have an explanation?
So i can not use your suggestion with first selecting one type, and check with <selection:invalid> to use other type.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 02:34:22 PM by MarKo »

Offline Bassman

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 05:30:57 PM »
Hi:)

Ich hab leider die Woche eine harte Woche. Weil ein Probenwochenende ansteht, muss ich mich darauf vorbereiten und ca. 30 Songs einstudieren, aber ich hoffe, dass ich ein wenig Zeit finde das Ganze zu testen...
Auf jeden Fall vielen Dank und bitte nicht böse sein, wenn ich mich ein paar Tage nicht melde, hab die Noten noch nicht gesehn, aber manchmal hat's schon Hämmer dabei:)

Bis denne,
Heinz.

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 05:54:06 PM »
And we could check the compressor-types (screenshot).
I think there is something strange with my System (X3e).
Shouldn´t the comp-types be listed in the Filter-combo?
In the list of filters, i have only <other> which acts a little strange.
I found by trial that this is the compressor, and at the beginning it was working for PC76 U. Then i switched to PC4K S and it was working too! (except the 2 additional params).
Next day after opening project, none of them was working, except the first 2 params.
But if i switch types again 2 times, everything works again for BOTH types!
Do you have an explanation?
So i can not use your suggestion with first selecting one type, and check with <selection:invalid> to use other type.
No, "<other>" is not the way to go... We should get PC76U and PC4K explicitly. I have to check at home with SPlat and X3. I do not remember with which versions I have developed it, may be it was X1/X2 (in rare occasion I use PC for my needs, I use ACT, so I have not spotted the problem myself).

CW does not make the life "easy". Not only they do not return PC module name, they also change module parameter names between versions! For PC4K I have already as the last parameter: "Sidechain HP Frequency" (for X2) and "S/C HP Freq" (some other X version). My guess is that X3 has something else or may be the number of parameter is changed. I will check and fix the code.

EQ, Comp and Saturation CAN be found different way, not that the way is used by any plug-in. But if with EQ there is no variants, Compressors have different types. And this other "way" just indicate that let say "module 3 is a compressor", but not which type this compressor is. And so, I still have to somehow detect it.

Another observation. Sometime Sonar indicates PC modules with all parameter, even if the module is off. But sometimes it return only one parameter, "On/Off" till the module is switched on. In this case, there is no way to guess which module it is, till may be using that "other way". Still, without type. I guess periodically reported strange PC related bugs on project saving/loading are somehow have roots in that origin. Also ACT mapping is "broken" from time to time, till some "magic" project reloads.

In general, to reliable control some PC module, it should be switched On by mouse and the project is saved. What I mean, in case I can control some PC module in particular project, I can control it later. But getting in under control the first time is a bit unstable.

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 06:52:12 PM »
Alexey, could it be that this has to do with localisation???
In attached screenshot you see params of PC76U.
You might notice that german "Umlauts" are garbled.
I didn´t mention that, because i always thought there is something not fully unicode-aware inside Sonar (i see the same garbled names in ACT).
But as it seems you are using those names - right?

I would have no problem switching my sonar to english if there is an easy way (do you know?). In fact i would prefer it now, because german translations are really strange in some places. But for users working with other languages, this could be a problem.

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 08:11:14 PM »
Yes! That is it. Switching to English means sonar re-installation...

Can you write me the LAST parameter name of each ProChannel?
In the track view, from "Clips" drop box (of the track, not menu) select "Automation-><some module>". The last parameter is what I need.

I am not sure about Sonar in general, but Control Surface API is not unicode-aware. They transfer all text information as ASCII. Theoretically, they can support some multibyte encoding. But practically they either do not do this or do this incorrectly.

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 11:34:50 PM »
Hi Alexey,

if you can fix this by just adding localized names, then i´ll stay with german version.
I don´t want to reinstall, and i think it could help in similar cases - to check there are no language-specific issues.

So here is the very short list:
PC76U: Effektanteil
PC4K: SC-HP-Frequenz
Tube: Ausgang

All others (EQ,CE, Sat, Tape and Breverb2) are obviously not translated, so that´s the reason they have been working ever without problems!

There are no Umlauts in exactly these "last" Params, so maybe it doesn´t matter, but other names look ugly different between Sonar-UI and API:
Röhrensättigung für Spur -> R*hrens*ttigung für Spur (what a name :o that´s why i considered switching to english)
The first (correct) is from Sonar-UI (Clips-Automation as you said), the garbled text is from API.
I´m sure because i know these garbled umlauts since ever from every Plugin i tried (that´s why i didn´t mention), and i checked now again: even Sonars own ACT-controller displays exactly the same garbled umlaut.
Hope this helps.

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 11:49:12 PM »
I will add that to the plug-in and that should work. It does not matter which characters are inside, I just need exact string as returned by Sonar  ;)
"Native" Sonar plug-ins are using the same API. And from what I understand, they are not Unicode aware even internally. AZCtrl is Unicode base. I have not checked, may be what sonar send is UTF-8, but the probability is close to zero.

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 11:58:18 PM »
Quote
may be what sonar send is UTF-8, but the probability is close to zero
i think it IS zero, otherwise they would differ in length.

Offline Bassman

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2015, 09:37:47 AM »
HI:)

Ok, hab doch mal interessehalber schnell mal reingekuckt: ein paar Sachen, hab noch nicht alles getestet!

Track Gain 1 springt beim anfassen auf -4.9, die anderen Regler sind normal!

Bottom Row:

Master hab ich wieder auf Bus Master gestellt, kein Problem:)
Mit dem 2. Regler kann ich jetzt gar nichts anfangen, es flackert nur, sollte wohl Gain sein....auch nicht mit Ctrl oder Shift!
Der 3. Regler ist derselbe Zoom wie der 4. Regler, die restlichen gehen alle wie beschrieben.

Weiss nicht wann ich weitertesten kann, aber das war's mal auf die Schnelle....

Heinz.

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2015, 11:30:19 AM »
So here is the very short list:
PC76U: Effektanteil
PC4K: SC-HP-Frequenz
Tube: Ausgang
Should work in b254.

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 11:33:42 AM »
Hi Heinz,

Du meinst den Regler +/- ?
Das ist das SpeedDial: klick mal auf irgendein Sonar-Control (nicht PlugIn), also zb. alles im Inspektor/Mischpultansicht, aber auch die ganzen MIDI-werte wie Programm, Kanal usw...
Nachdem ein Regler angeklickt ist, kannst du mit R2(+/-) den Wert ändern.
Und R3 kommt erst.
Hast das Tempo schon probiert? Gut so?

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 11:35:31 AM »
Quote
Should work in b254.
Thank you!
i can´t wait - i hope i can try it in the evening.

Offline Bassman

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Re: BCR2000-preset, beta 3
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2015, 11:50:48 AM »
Hi nochmal:)

Ansonsten sieht es so aus, als ob alles geht!! Das Konzept ist klasse!!!
Der Gain Regler Nr. 1 geht jetzt plötzlich, aber nach vielem rumprobieren ging das Ganze sehr hakelig....nach Neustart von Sonar läuft's jetzt wieder normal....

Gain +/- geht aber trotzdem nicht, Quatsch, jetzt seh ich das erst!!!!  Liegt ja auf den Buttons.....sorry!

alsdo -dB geht, + auch, aber der Fokus springt 8 Spuren weiter, bei dreimaligem Drücken um 24 Spuren.

Bis denne, melde mich DO wieder, morgen hab ich keine Minute frei:(

Heinz.