Author Topic: BCR-2000 preset, beta  (Read 14667 times)

Offline MarKo

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BCR-2000 preset, beta
« on: May 25, 2015, 10:10:41 PM »
So here is a first preset for BCR2000.
This is still a work in progress, but i was asked by another BCR-user, so i´ll provide this as a starting point.
It may have bugs and is not complete, so feedback is welcome.

I assume you have installed and configured AZ-plugin and had a look at the documentation.
First thing to do is to load the matching preset into the BCR, because i have reprogrammed my BCR, so that ALL buttons can be used for Midi-Ctrl (normally there are 4 reserved buttons, and 2 for preset-switching).
This also means that you will not be able to switch between BCR-presets directly from the unit!
To switch to a different BCR-preset, you´ll have to send Program-changes or use a preset-manager.
I´m using the BC-Manager (http://mountainutilities.eu/bcmanager) which i strongly recommend also for backing up the current state/presets of your BCR (see BC-Manager-Docs).
But the BCR-preset is just a SysEx-file, so you can use whatever you like (the attachement must be renamed to .sxy because that´s not allowed).
If you load this preset "BCR2000 for AZCtrl (all Btns).syx" into your BCR, it sends the MIDI-Controllers needed for this AZ-preset.
If you don´t like to reprogram your BCR, you could think about a different layout and reassign the controls inside AZ (Hardware-Tab).

Ok, now a short description:
I hope the attached picture helps, but don´t look at the current labels  :o as said, this is work in progress.
It has 3 main modes:
- Track (can be toggled between Track/Bus)
- ProChannel/Selected Track-Mode
- ACT
The states are indicated with corresponding Led´s.
In Track-mode, the Tracks can be shifted in groups of 8 (preset buttons < >), and the WAI-position is also shown (2 Led´s, so currently up to Track 32).
The 8 Track-controls are (top-down):
Level meter (timing adjust see Sonar-Preferences), Solo, Mute, Send1, Pan, Vol

Pushing the first encoder (level meter) switches this Track to:
"ProChannel-Mode", indicated with a flashing Solo-Led of this channel (solo-function of button still works).
In Channel-mode you have:
the left group of 4 encoders is EQ - the layout exactly as on the screen.
the other group of encoders shares HiPass, LoPass, Compressor and Console Emu (i hope you can identify it on the picture)
mute-buttons are: EQ-band 1-4 enabled, then HiPass, LoPass, EQ-active, Compressor active.

I hope the global buttons and transport can be to guessed from the picture.
Not all buttons have shift/ctrl functions yet, but some.

As said, it´s in still progress and i´m not sure about some details.
E.g. i have a problem with: level-meters must be top row (only this can be switched to "meter-style"), while i want my fader to be in the first(bottom) row. i would really appreciate ideas of other BCR-users too.
But i hope it helps to get started.

@Alexey: if you have time, please take a look at the "flash selected channel" - logic (S1 Sel & Feedback). I think this could be done more efficiently, but at least it´s working now ;)

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2015, 12:09:16 AM »
Great work!
I hope someone with BCR2000 join you, at least with testing and ideas if not with help in configuration. May be post on OF to make it more visible? Unfortunately, search of OF (event with google) does not work well. I have tried to find Faderport preset post and the result was all set of problems with Sonar and Faderport during many years, but not the link to working modern preset...

I have a question: in S1v, I see "s_SEL:1 - Undefined". Do you have something else here?

In Sx Sel:
* you can "Strip WAI Current" as the first action, "Select Strip" will work with that (since it defines the strip) and so you can remove second "Strip WAI Current". That will not change what that list is doing, but there will be one action less
* "Set engine state" in the next action does nothing (since it is after monitor declaration, this action is not executed in Monitor mode)
* I think Parameter Value Monitor should be periodic, not once (it does not react on focus changed by mouse otherwise)
* I do not understand why you reset Solo indicator from there
* I have not completely understood your s_SEL logic. Can you explain what you try to achieve?

In Solo action:
Parameter Name/Value Monitor has "Double" flag set. I can imagine that is coming from bug in some of my examples/preset. Do you remember where you have seen that? It will be nice to fix. 

In _ModeChanged:
I have recently found always working way to use "Move Input focus to Track/Bus":
1) define another state  set s_CurrentTrMode with Track/Bus
2) do "Save/Recall" "Recall" "focused" strip type to s_CurrentTrMode. That way you get currently focused strip type
3) ignore where it is already correct "s_CurrentTrMode: Track s_TrMode: Track  - Undefined final", "s_CurrentTrMode: Bus s_TrMode: Bus  - Undefined final"
4) for switching from Track to Bus, use 2 commands: "Move Input Focus to Track Pane" and then "Move Input Focus to Bus Pane". For Bus to Track switch reversed. The first command (move input focus where it already is) makes the second one always work. Do not ask me why...

Sorry, it is the first time I try to understand preset written by someone else. And I must admit that is not an easy task...  ;)

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2015, 08:32:08 AM »
Thanks for your comments and suggestions!
i will need some time in the evening to give you detailed answers, but i think most of the mentionend points are just "historic" from experimenting and/or lack of knowledge.
But i remember that "double" flag was created by startup-preset.
what do you mean with "OF"?

Quote
Sorry, it is the first time I try to understand preset written by someone else. And I must admit that is not an easy task...

really? ;) i know...

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2015, 09:26:31 AM »
But i remember that "double" flag was created by startup-preset.
I see it is still there. Thanks for reminding.

Quote
what do you mean with "OF"?
Official Forum

Quote
Quote
Sorry, it is the first time I try to understand preset written by someone else. And I must admit that is not an easy task...
really? ;) i know...
That is why I put lengthy texts in may examples/tutorials.

But I am not asking for detailed explanation, at the end in case someone can interpret presets that is (should be) me  ;)

I have already understood that you use s_SEL as "Mode" for Selected/Not selected and the same LED for Select/Solo ( CC:65 for the first strip ). But you have coupled all things together. In case you have selected Strip 1 and it is blinking and then have changed focus by mouse, does everything still work as you except? For me it looks like LED1 can "stuck" in On state in that case. What I mean is that I do not see you are tracing "external" focus changes in respect to mode.


Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2015, 09:08:16 PM »
Ok, now more detailed answers (the very long story  ::)).

As i said before, the preset is not finished and must be cleaned up too.
I started with a startup-preset, and then i played with many different layouts/logic, so i´m sure there are errors left over, or things which i have changed in the meantime.
Some things are not implemented yet (thats where you see "Undefined"), but i just uploaded the preset as a start because i was asked from other forum-user (i hope he get´s it working).

But i have to say that i nearly gave up with my "flash selected track"-logic, and i was about to ask you for help. So what´s currently there, is the result of hours of fiddling around - in the end more trial&error. And i really spent time reading your explanations.

So somehow i got a first version a little bit working, but with all problems like you mention: wrong states after bank-switching, sometimes needing 2 button-presses, and so on. The craziest bug was once that when toggling solo from Sonar side, the solo-led was sometimes flashing shortly. I still have no concrete idea from where that came. But i had a version where i tried using one "global" flash-timer, which was always running. i know that´s not optimal, but i tried if it makes it easier. With a global "blink-state", the logic for solo-led was pretty simple, to flash in selected mode.
But then i had some other bugs - i restarted the Sel-logic from scratch several times >:(
Some trys later, i was quite happy - it seemed to work. At that time it was following mouse-selection correctly (Value Monitor was periodic, like you said it should).
Then i copied this logic to the other track-strips (testing first 1 strip).
Ok, then the real problems began: if first S1 was selected with S1v, but not deselected with the same button - so directly pressing e.g. S2v, the logic was not working. After some more trials, i thought found the problem: directly after "select track" action, the check for current track was not working as expected, because it referred to the previous selected track! It looked like Sonar needed time to first update it´s state and "current" track will be correct only after the next cycle.
And then it got really weird when i tried to check this "later"  ::)
I admit that after some hours, i started planless moving things around, playing with priorities and cycles and i think that i also changed the monitor to once while testing.
It was late night and through planless trials (i was just about to write you), i somehow got to this puzzled solution, which is the first one working correctly (when used from surface). I did not re-check that following mouse-focus was broken, and it has another little drawback: i can not switch directly from selected stip1 to selected strip2, because s_Sel is toggled off with first the press of S2v. Anyway i was happy to get it working so far.

i changed the monitor now to periodic again, which follows mouse-focus correctly, but of course you are right - it has exactly the problem you mentioned (it leaves Led´s stuck in one state).

It would be very nice if you could show (and explain) an example of how you would code that perfectly (and why). It´s enough to have 2 buttons and 2 Led´s to get the principle.
The Led´s should show in track-mode the solo state of 2 tracks, and button-press should make this track the current and selected (s_Sel:1). In selected track mode, the corresponding solo-Led should blink.
if track1 is selected, pressing button 2 could switch directly to state SelTrack 2, but that´s not so important.

I will check the other points you mentioned later.
And of course i will propose that on "OF", but i´d like to have it a bit more finished than today (also the description). Currently i´m not really often in OF, it has become very strange (i need a perfect staff-view blabla  :o )

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 10:54:25 PM »
It would be very nice if you could show (and explain) an example of how you would code that perfectly (and why). It´s enough to have 2 buttons and 2 Led´s to get the principle.
The Led´s should show in track-mode the solo state of 2 tracks, and button-press should make this track the current and selected (s_Sel:1). In selected track mode, the corresponding solo-Led should blink.
if track1 is selected, pressing button 2 could switch directly to state SelTrack 2, but that´s not so important.
I have no much time left... So, shot.

In AZ Controller you first have to try strait way.
* I have defined 2 controls Sel1 and Sel2 (your buttons with LEDs). I have also created one "System" control "Mode monitor".
* I have created 3 Sets: for Mode, for Blink and for current Selected strip (with required number of states).
* Mode monitor show current mode in the Column 1
* Column 2 and Column 3 are your LEDs
* Sel1/2 are identical, the difference is in track. So, the explanation is just for Sel1.
* We have 2 modes, so I select WAI Track Solo when in mode Track, and WAI Track Selected when in mode Selected
* We need a monitor for value in both cases (so, no condition)
* You do not use the button for solo, if I understand correctly. So it just select the track/switch the mode (if it was already selected).
* Select track (in both modes!).
* I also add Monitor trigger, as I remember you need that to update LED after it was changed by hardware during button operation.
* In track mode: switch to Selected mode. Final! Otherwise next action will satisfy (we switch Selected STATE, so the effect IS immediate)
* In Selected mode: in case the strip was selected, switch mode to Track. (you are right, changes are not immediate. So, "Selecting" the strip does not change the Selected state, that will be done in the Monitor later. And so, we can use its "old" status here).


And now the monitor:
* for Value 0 (does not matter either it is "Track not selected" or "Solo is off"), we turn off LED (I display '-'). Final action.
* for Value 127 in Track mode we just turn on LED (+)
* for Selected mode value 127:
 - we turn off/on led according to the Blink state
 - change the Blink state
 - remember Selected (value 127, we ARE selected!)
 - trigger ourself in 2 cycles (blinking)
* I have to update display with prepared text, you do not really (and you can set Value: 0 Action as final and avoid Value:127 condition in all other actions).

Thats it...  :)

You can test it with "play" button, or assign some controls to them. Blink,Solo, focus changed by mouse - everything should work.

There is  one problem... If you select some track outside your controlled range, Selected state will not be updated, and so "Select" button on the last controller strip with turn mode to Track instead of keeping it in Selected. Nothing is perfect, but I do not think that is a huge issue.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 10:57:31 PM by azslow3 »

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2015, 11:46:47 PM »
Quote
I have no much time left... So, shot.

sorry, i forgot - somewhere i read something about sea&sun - have a nice time!
meantime i´ll try to understand/implement what you wrote. Although a short reading leaves me partly clueless on what you mean. But maybe it becomes clearer, when i start working on it...
thanks for your ideas.

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2015, 11:51:46 PM »
OH - thank you!!!
i did´nt see the attachement first, i read it just as explanation!
have to try that now...
many thanks again!

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2015, 12:04:38 AM »
I have finished packing quick... I do not like "not perfect" programs.

I attach modified preset, without the problem mentioned  :)

The trick in modification: I also have "Undefined" state in the "Selected" Set. In case monitor see that the current Selected is our, but Value is 0, it set it to "Undefined". Note that all conditions are important: other monitors (from other channels) could be executed before or after. So, in case we unconditionally set "Undefined" on zero, it will be always undefined (all strips except may be one are not selected all the time). "Mode: Selected" is also important. In "Track" mode "Value: 0" means "not soloed".

I think in addition to "Selected" Set concept, the only one you have not see so far is several parameter selection before Monitor. I guess you can understand after all my explanations before, that Monitor work with the parameter selected as last, even in case there was several (working) Strip/Fx/etc. actions before. They are evaluated every time before monitor, so that works correctly with conditions.
Related note: Value Monitor also auto triggered on Parameter change. I mean in case your Track has Solo (Value 127) and is switched to Selected mode (also Value 127). The monitor will be auto triggered since it worked with parameter "Solo" and it is parameter "Selected" now.

It is good practice to put all actions not required for Monitor environment setup after monitor. Both "Strip" actions are essential for Monitor (they define what is monitored). While the rest is just the reaction on button press, not relevant for Monitor.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 12:07:00 AM by azslow3 »

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2015, 12:22:18 AM »
But i have to say that i nearly gave up with my "flash selected track"-logic, and i was about to ask you for help. So what´s currently there, is the result of hours of fiddling around - in the end more trial&error. And i really spent time reading your explanations.
Please do not do that again...  If you need an example for something you do not get within 5-10 minutes, just let me know. You are always welcome. Normally, in case I can not get it within 5-10 minutes, I start planing modification in plug-in to make it quick. So you will not waste you time, I get new idea and all other can use the result!

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2015, 12:27:32 AM »
Quote
I have finished packing quick... I do not like "not perfect" programs.
It could be that your latest explanations were really important for me...

Have a nice trip!

Offline Stevie

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2015, 09:23:05 AM »
Hi Martin

Thanks for posting your preset I have installed as per your instructions and with a bit of adjustment have it running as expected

Having looked at the program and documentation you have done an excellent job to get it to this stage, no way I could do that!

The compressor button filter type was set to other once set to the compressor it turned on and off
Then I just had to assign the filter types to the compressor encoders

Took a while to figure out but compared EQ settings that were working to compressor settings that were not and got there eventually
A good learning experience for a beginner like me

Your instructions and picture worked well, I have not given it a real workout yet so I have not found any problems
I can see that the transport controls with the shift looping option will be handy

This is my first post so I must thank Alexey for his excellent program, I own an alphatrack (now working very well) a BCR2000 (well on its way to working well) and 2 X BCF2000 hopefully working well in the near future

I can see some more flowers on there way soon  :) and I hope you are enjoying your break

So a big thanks to you both keep up the good work anything I can do to assist let me know

Regards

Stevie

Offline azslow3

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2015, 10:49:29 AM »
Hi Stevie,

Welcome here!

About my plans.

I have realized that I have to implement plug-in management. Including scanning for particular parameter resolution and mapping to user defined "categories". I mean selecting EQ parameters in each preset by numbers is a nightmare, especially if you want control more than one plug-in. So my current thoughts: if we can define category "EQ" ("Dyn", "Strip", "Reverb", I mean arbitrary) plus some set of parameters in that category ("HF Freq", "Cut-off", "Wet",...) and then say "ProChannel EQ" IS "EQ", its parameter 16 is "EQ HF Freq" (and the same for any other FX plug-ins), then in the configuration for some knob we just say "EQ HF Freq" and it controls HF Freq of whatever plug-in we have selected... that sounds like a good idea for me  :)
That is quite some work, so please do not expect it is done soon.

BSF2000 has some similarity with MCU, but may be more with StudioMix (not touch sensitive faders, no channel display). I have StudioMix now, so there will be good preset for it. My MCU preset is in "frozen" state since there was no big interest from community after it was published while it requires enormous amount of work for testing. With 2 active users we have managed to make Alphatrack working in several weeks, and Alphatrack is much simpler.

Regards,
Alexey.

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2015, 01:24:07 PM »
Hi Stevie,

Fine that you got it working!
I´m currently finishing my layout and optimizing some details, then i will post the next (complete?) version.
So if you have some suggestions, they are welcome.

Which Sonar-version are you using? Could there be a difference?
I´m on X3 - and for me the compressor is working with filter:other.
i do not even have a filter:compressor - strange.

martin

Offline MarKo

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Re: BCR-2000 preset, beta
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2015, 01:43:26 PM »
It could be that your latest explanations were really important for me...

They were!
Alexey, for me this was the best example until now, really wonderful for understanding.
Along with your descriptions, i finally think that i understand it now (mostly).
While transferring your SoloSelected-solution into my preset, some little questions came up.
But i don´t want to bother you now with that.