Author Topic: Roland VM-C7200 preset  (Read 10095 times)

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2017, 07:21:50 PM »
Hi AZ!

  I hope you are having a nice holiday season! ("last action:failed > Undefined" ,I think maybe I am doing too much programming  ;)) By the way, how was your presentation?

  The preset is almost at its final (if there could be one!) versión. I managed to implement all of the wishlist ítems mentioned in an ealier post. The transport is working with feedback on Stop, Rec and Play. The joog Wheel works with some compromises and also the FF and Rew buttons.
 
  Doing some experiments with text transmition I founded that the VM-C7200 have Dinamic Incremental Parameter Addresing (I don´t now if this its the correct term, but sounds nice!). If you assemble a sys-ex message with more than one data byte after the initial address, the console reacts in the same way as if you send each one with their respective incremented address. After discovering this, text feedback was very easy. In just one message per strip I can send the entire Long Text (12 char) and Short Text (3 char)

  It its posible to assemble composed messages for some controls. By looking at the manual (Input Parameter List p 274-275) it seems that good candidates are Mute Button, Fader Level, Audio Button and Panner as they are next to each other. The Solo Button is in another category so it is better left alone.

  The current almost complete versión is v211 (with individual addressing on controls). I did a test preset using v202 preset (to keep it simple) using compound messages. I revised the Yamaha 01v post for ideas, but the layout is different (the 01v uses one message for the same function on different strips and the VM-C7200 uses one message for different functions on the same strip). The preset works but its logic its no optimized. I did a complete versión (v214) and found that even without the optimized logic the refresh times are notably shorter and less prone to errors. The Echo Cancel Function does not work in this arrangement but the console works fine (even the buttons). Could you guide me on how to improve the logic? I am sending the test versión (v212), thanks again!
 
  PS it seems that maybe there is a bug in the last AZController test versión (0.5r7b381). Everytime that I try to open the Display Configure Options Sonar Platinum (22.11.0 Build 111) crash

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2017, 08:27:09 PM »
Hi!
I am fine and the presentation was good (at least from the computer, software and my performance perspective... we forgot to deselect "mute on mic in" button on our central mixer and by boss forgot to switch off own mic during 2 from 3 of my "performances", so the music level was so to say unstable...   ::) ).

I have checked b381 and I guess I know from where the crash comes. Will fix that tomorrow, thanks for spotting.

Optimization of the preset needs some concentration and time. I guess not before the next year, sorry (fortunately the next year is around the corner).

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2017, 11:06:49 AM »
b382 is uploaded. The bug with Display Configuration should be fixed now.

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2017, 10:37:41 PM »
Happy New Year!

  My  best wishes for 2018!

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2018, 05:19:25 PM »
Happy New Year!  ;)

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2018, 12:50:32 AM »
Hi Alexey   :)!

  After some research and experimentation I managed to implement optimized feedback on strip paramenters (Mute, Audio, Level and Pan). I am not shure if it is the best aproach but it works  ;). I am sending the most recent preset (v214b) wich I think its very close to a final preset (with some room for expansión). I am now in the proccess of testing and refining some features and also on starting to write an instruction guide. Any suggestions are welcome!

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2018, 08:02:12 AM »
Hi again Alexey :)!

  With the addition of text feedback on the mixer display suddently Pro Channel and ACT modes became more practical because with so many controls available (24 faders, 24 "rotors" and 24 buttons) it´s easy to get lost without parameter information.

  I have implemented ACT with 6 banks of controls. On the Pro Channel Mode I first started with a fixed paramenter assignation to the rotors and buttons (somewhat similar to Marko´s BCR-2000 preset). Later I founded that due to the mixer layout it´s more practical to distribute the modules in groups of controls of fixed size (including faders). Currently the layout is divided in 4 groups of 6 controls of each type. Group number 4 (Ch 19-24) is reserved for EQ because the faders are the closest to the 6 rotary knobs under the screen. On the 3 remaining groups it is possible to assign 3 Pro Channel modules. On the parameter selection I choosed to not define each module directly in the Filter action. Instead, I made module assigning subroutines which define a parameter position for each control. These states are dependent on a main PC Slot Number state set.

 I could manually select the correct definition subroutine for each Pro Channel module loaded. My problem is how to detect which module it´s loaded on each Pro Channel Slot. Are there workarounds to Sonar limitations in that respect? I know that it´s possible to manually enter PC module definitions in AZ Controler. Could this info be used to autodetect modules? If it´s not possible to detect each module by position could all the modules loaded in the strip be detected?

 In the VM-C7200 preset I can choose the type of parameter name displayed for the controls. When "Container" is selected, the text shows the correct PC module name, but I don´t know how to compare text strings (maybe by transforming the text into some arbitrary Sys Ex message and looping back?)

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2018, 12:09:00 PM »
Hi!
I am fascinated that you still digging throw it  ;)

Detecting which PC/FX is on each position is not possible. Well... we are in AZController world. It was not possible, till now  8)

Please download b383, its "Set state" action has "By text" option. !!! Do not forget save your current preset, better with export. b383 updated version of preset format, so older versions will
not work with what it saves. !!!

I attach an example how to use this new feature. It tries to monitor current track SECOND PC module name and change the state of corresponding set. Notes:
* example put the name in question into Text and then monitor this text (static monitor). In the feedback, it tries to match some state name by current text, setting some
"fall back" when not found.
* the monitor should have priority LOWER (in number) than monitors for PC parameters. So when the change happens, it change the state before you use it to select parameters.
But in case you make it "Strip" state dependent, it should work after strip type detection. Priorities fix the sequence in which monitoring happens.
* special name "<other>" is used for unknown modules. For not default modules, you can define them. Then add to the set it question. Then define corresponding processing. Tricky, I know.

PS. everything related to ProChannel in Sonar is extremely buggy. I mean the way CW has implemented it. Also PC is Sonar exclusive, you will be unable to move PC settings to other DAW.
Two bugs related to what you do now:
1) Sonar fail to return the name of PC modules. It returns it for FXes, Synth and even for "ACT mapping" module, but not for Filters. So names are "guessed" in AZ Controller (some are hardcoded, the rest can be user defined).
2) Sonar 8- filters had fixed positions, initial X1 PC also (0 - EQ, 1 - Comp, 2+ not used). CW attempted "backward compatibility"  in API, but completely failed with that. As the result, not only old plug-ins are unable to work with EQ/Comp, AZ Controller has hard time to provide related functionality. Short description of the mess: "EQ" and "Comp" for NOT focused strips are ordered according to the focused strip, other modules are not accessible at all for not focused strips. So, what is PC Module number X for strip Y in API depends from which strip is in focus and only EQ/Comp can always be somehow found.

There are other, f.e. accessing Compressor type parameter name (so, which should always just return "Type") after several calls CRASH Sonar. The reason why Mackie (MCU/C4) owner should avoid "EQ" and "Dyn" buttons to prevent random crashes (AZ Controller and my Mackie mod have hard-coded workaround).

I am (not yet) discourage you to use ProChannel (and Sonar). I just want to inform you which "quality" that staff has, especially since we know that will never improve...    :(
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 12:12:36 PM by azslow3 »

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2018, 07:26:41 PM »
Thanks Alexey!

  I apologize for not being able to respond earlier. I am not with the machine right now but I can do a review of the new Pro Channel mode with text recognition function in 3 words: It's like Magic! (maybe that was 4  ;))

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2018, 10:10:04 PM »
I am glad in case it work and will try to fix in case you find some issues with it.

But please do not apologize for delayed responses, I am AZ SLOW    ;)

Offline Bassman

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2018, 10:17:28 AM »
Hi Alexey:)

Now that Sonar lives again:

I've tried to load the VM-C7200 Preset just to look how it works to send a row of Sysx, but I can't figure out.
It doesn't load:(
I have no Roland so perhaps it only works, if I have one...

Could you please send me just one command to send Sysx Commands to my mixer from the BCR2000 Preset??
I only do need 2-3 sends for it, all the rest I do in the DAW

Thank you very much;)
Heinz.

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2018, 01:34:42 PM »
I guess VM-C7200 presets will not load into older AZ Controller, only into current test version.

To send SysEx, add an Action and select "SysEx/MIDI" as the type. You will get a field to enter the sequence itself, as hex numbers (like 01 45 a4 7d).

Offline Bassman

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2018, 01:47:43 PM »
HI Alexey:)

Ich dachte ich hätte die Neueste installiert, aber ich teste das noch!

Geht das auch in beiden Richtungen? Als für einen Fader hab ich ja 2 verschiedene Befehle für Increment und Decrement....

Kucke mir das Preset etwas genauer an, wenn es denn geladen wird.

Danke dir;)
Heinz.

P.S. Ich finde keine Testversion zum downloaden, die letzte "stable Version ist "azctrl_0_5r6b380.exe"!
      Mit der kann ich das Preset nicht laden....
P.P.S.S. ;)   Hab's gefunden, manchmal ist man blind:(
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 02:02:49 PM by Bassman »

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2018, 03:44:43 PM »
Mit SysEx geht alles. Allerdings nicht so einfach wegen keinen vordefinierte Standard.

Beschrieb was genau willst du haben, dann mache ich ein Beispiel wie es geht.   

Offline Bassman

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2018, 12:47:18 PM »
Hi Alexey:)

Ich hab 4erlei Sysx:

F0 43 10 3D 00 00 2A 00 00 F7, wobei sich die  Nullen vor der F7 ändern, ich glaube von 00 00 zu 07 F7, muss ich noch nachkucken!

Hier der komplette Eintrag:
S 10 {F0 43 10 3D 00 00 2A 00 00 F7}
M Y = X   
M Y > 4                                                               
M Y & 15                                                               
F  Y 7                                                                     
M X & 15                                                               
F X 8                                                                     
T 10


F0 43 10 3D 19 00 07 01 F7, das ist ein Schalter ON, Off wäre F0 43 10 3D 19 00 07 00 F7

Eintrag in der Software:
S 9  {F0 43 10 3D 19 00 07 01 F7}                               
FX 7                                                                       
T 9                                                                       
S 9 {F0 43 10 3D 19 00 07 00 F7}                               
FX 7                                                                       
T 9


Dann hat es noch manche Fader oder Regler die mehr Bytes haben, also F0 43 10 3D 00 00 2A 00 00 00 00 F7, wobei Byte 8 und 10, 9 und 11 sich identisch bewegen.

Dann gibt es Regler mit Minus und Plus, hier mal der komplette Eintrag in meiner Software (Midipad)

M X -36
S 10 { F0 43 10 3D 00 06 48 00 00 F7 }
M Y = X
M Y > 4
MY & 15
F  Y 7                                                                     
M X & 15
F X 8
T 10

Ich bräuchte wahrscheinlich nur 1 Fader (10 und 12 Bytes), 1 Schalter und 1 Regler mit Minus und Plus.
Wäre super wenn ich das ins Preset miteinbauen und auf einen Midikanal ausgeben könnte. Ist immer ziemlich lästig auf die Software zu switchen und manchmal verstellt sich was, weil das Teil ab und zu spinnt und alle Fader neu ausgibt....

Mach dir nicht zuviel Arbeit! So wichtig ist es nicht!

Ich steig leider bei dem Roland Preset nicht dahinter wie das funktioniert, ich finde die Sysx Befehle nicht, die müssen doch irgendwo hinterlegt sein....

Vielen Dank vorab:)

Heinz.