Author Topic: Roland VM-C7200 preset  (Read 9311 times)

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2017, 10:08:22 PM »
  I did some tests today and it seems that 26 is the maximun number of channels that can be monitored successfully. I used 2 different Midi interfaces and the results were the same. Maybe this info helps

Online azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2017, 07:35:49 PM »
If by chance you have time near the device, can you check with your Fader+Pan preset the latest test build (380M)?
I am not completely ready, but if I guess it right, you should be able to use more then 26 channels (I mean unlimited).
Note that is "alpha" quality build ;)

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 08:05:38 PM »
  Awesome! All Faders and Pans now working!  :D

Online azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 09:35:21 PM »
Good. That means I am not the right way with my modifications.

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2017, 08:23:47 PM »
Hi AZ!

  Doing some research, I have found an option for the controls that could be used as mode and state changers. In the mixer´s monitor section (p 97 on the manual) there are 24 selectors (Monitor Source Flex Bus and Monitor Source Input) that are mutually exclusive (radio buttons) and could be operated in groups of six using the buttons under the screen. These selectors transmit on the same address different values. For the Shift control the most viable option is the Monitor Dim control which is momentary using the Talkback/Slate Button, and could be locked using the Dim Button.

  Yesterday in the afternoon I was trying to configure some buttons and found by accident that the console didn´t take the checksum value in consideration. It only needs a byte in the  required posittion but the value was irrelevant. I did some tests in the AZ presets deleting the VM-C7200 checksum generating line, and putting 00 in the final line before F7 and the mixer responded fine. I did with the last test versión of AZ Controller (I tried to rollback to the previuos versión to confirm this but my presets didn´t open).

Online azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2017, 09:04:35 PM »
AZ Controller is not "forward compatible". Presets created in newer versions in general do not open in older versions.

Sorry for the delay. I hope to update the new version till the end of this week (configurable SysEx delay is already implemented, I am working with "echo cancellation" since it is too boring for buttons without it),  but not 100% sure I find the time to finish it...

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2017, 05:14:32 AM »
 Don´t worry!

  I am working on the layout. I modified the preset so it is now posible to select the faders functions between Track Level and Track Sends 1-5 on the first 6 buttons (B1- B6). Using Shift controls the respective Pans. The logic is raw and direct but it´s working and there is no need for feedback

Online azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2017, 01:52:06 PM »
With a delay... I have uploaded b381.

In the "Options" tab, it has "IO options..." button. Here you can:
* tune SysEx timing parameters (in the version you used before, that was hardcoded). Start conservative (up to 1 message per 100ms), then reduce till it stop working reliably and then increase a bit as a "safety". Since the documentation mention 1 per 20ms, may be that is the best setting.

* do not perform initial "timing tuning" with "suppression"  set, since that will reduce the number of data actually send.

* note that for suppression work correctly, the checksum MUST be added. SysEx packets are compared verbatim. to check "suppress from" is working you need a button assigned to control with feedback, f.e. mute. How that works:
* Mute status checked -> sent to device (let say "Mute ON")
* Device echo "Mute ON", but it is suppressed by "from". (since that is the last message we have sent)

* You press the button, its internally set "Mute OFF" and send the message "Mute OFF"
* the message is processed, asking Sonar to unmute
* Mute status checked, so it is about to send "Mute OFF". But it will be suppressed by "to" (since the last message seen is exactly that)

* you change controlled WAI
* Mute status checked. Let say that another channel is also unmuted. Since the channel is changed, the system is about to send "Mute OFF", but it will be suppressed since the message to send is still exactly as we seen before.


Note that the whole MIDI engine has to be adopted for such operations, something can be buggy...

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2017, 07:55:33 AM »
Thanks again AZ, you are amazing  :D!

  After many tests with the new preset everything seems to be working without bugs. The best setting for the I/O options is something like 80 ms of delay for every 6 to 8 Sys-Ex messages sended. Setting the delay for just one channel  resulted in too slow redraw even with the minimun 10 ms delay setting.

  I had to raise the delay value that Sonar uses after the refresh cicle in the feedback section from 1 to 2 seconds to ensure that the values remain unaltered while the faders reach new positions.

  About the switches I am not shure how to translate the values back and forth. The switch transmit 0 or 1 while the function needs 0 and 127. Also, on the monitoring cicle we need back 0 and 1 for the checksum to be generated correctly. Could you explain me just the general scheme on how to do this?

Online azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2017, 11:00:41 AM »
If you attach your current preset, I can add let say "Mute 1" example, with correct translation and feedback.

In general, all "tricks" are simple. If "supression" flags work, we do not need any "3state per control" for buttons. In direct reaction, we can use the following to set parameter (after value 0-1 is extracted from SysEx):
Value:0 - Set Value absolute 0
Value:1 - Set Value absolute 1

Opposite in the monitor:
Value:0 - ... add 0 to sysex
Value:127 - ... add 1 to sysex

For correct checksum, the same special function as for faders should be used.

But as I wrote, I can make an example.

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2017, 05:59:50 PM »
 I got It!

  Of the 3 main versions that I have for the preset this is the one that looks more promising. It has 24 faders that could be defined in the buttons in the Monitor edit screen as follows:

B1 -B6 define fader functions with Monitor Dim Switch as a Shift

B1           Volume
Shift B1   Pan
B2           Send 1 Level
Shift B2   Send 1 Pan
---             ----
B5           Send 4 Level
Shift B5   Send 4 Pan
B6           Selected Channel Pro Channel Functions

B7 - B12 are WAI definers

B7           Strip Type Track
B8           Strip Type Bus
B9           WAI -1
B10         WAI +1
B11         WAI - 12
B12         WAI +12

  The preset works fine but sometimes the WAI position is changed when the Strip Type returns to Track after modifying the faders functions in the Strip Type Bus view. The B1 - B12 switches transmit the same message with different values so I choosed to have the value as part of the address portion to simplify things (I think it is not neccessary to have feedback in these Buttons because they are mutually exclusive but as I sayed earlier the logic is still in developement)

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2017, 06:33:55 PM »
  Buttons are working now!

  Each strip now has working Mute, Solo and Audio Buttons with feedback. Because of switches´s Led colors I chosed to have Mute Switch (Red) asigned to Rec Arm; Solo Switch (Yellow) asigned to Mute and Audio Switch (Green) asigned to Solo-Select. When the Faders change from controlling Strip Volume to Strip Sends the Red Switches control Pre-Post Send and the Yellow Switches control Send Activation. In Pro Channel Mode the Red Switches take care of On-Off functions. Because of double function of Solo-Select I chosed not to change the Green Switches functions.

  The WAI problem of not returning to the same position during Strip Type Changes changes was corrected. I am now in the procces of testing for bugs and defining the final layout. I am not shure about including an ACT Mode because of lack of displays for faders (and because I have the BCR-2000 too). A workaround coul be to use the Input Channel Short Name (3 char ASCII) wich is displayed on the Main Ch Level - Ch Pan display but is a little bit tricky to implement (you have to break the text in parts and send 3 different messages as seen on manual p 296)

  The mixer has built in transport controls Stop, Play, Rec, Ffwd, Rew Return to 0 and a Joog Wheel. These controls use MMC protocol. Stop, Play and Rec are easy to configure but Ffwd, Rew, Return to 0 and the Joog Wheel all send the same message with Standard Time Specification with subframes defining bytes (ass seen in manual p 298-299). Each time you press Ffwd or Rew this bytes increment or decrement; on Return to 0 they are all set to 0. The Joog Wheel also increment/decrement these bytes, but you can choose wich byte to modify using the Time Cursor Modifiers (frames or seconds or minutes or hours). One easy solution is to send the time position back to the mixer but I don´t now if this could be done without loading too much the bandwidth       

Online azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2017, 11:24:24 PM »
Nice progress.
Sorry, I am completely out of time at the moment. I have to play piano... Something natural for any normal musician, but I just play for myself (only). And this time there are going to be other listeners  ;)
At location there is no real piano. In preparation of by  MIDI "gear" I have found the interface crash when connected to my notebook way to often to trust that setup. I do not want kill all my colleagues by that crazy sound. So, new interface... On the way to the shop my auto wrote me "hm... time to visit garage". Complete mess.

Offline BJ Baylon

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2017, 06:06:56 PM »
Ups! :(
  Sometimes unexpected things agreed to take you by surprise in a bad momento. I hope that your car gets well soon! If you play the piano with the same dedication that you put into programming, your presentation will be a memorable one, good luck and happy holidays!

Online azslow3

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Re: Roland VM-C7200 preset
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2017, 06:24:58 PM »
Thanks!
The only problem is that I have stopped learning piano just before I have started programming... 30 years ago. So while the dedication is may be the same, the skills are by far different  ;)