Author Topic: Roland SI-24 Control Surface  (Read 7530 times)

Offline michaylasaph

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Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« on: June 28, 2016, 06:38:52 AM »
The latest Sonar hui preset has allowed me to finally use my si-24 in the 64 bit domain!!!! this has been my biggest problem, but your preset and setting the si-24 to hui has changed that, so thankful... if you can get more than 8 sliders to work, (the si-24 has 12) that would be so awesome. the si-24 is really an incredible control surface that does so much... you can get them really cheap on ebay, then just get a midi to usb adapter and your great to go. i dont know if it will help you at all, but i have attached a Roland SI-24 midi info text file. might be useful to you. thanks again for your software and hui preset!

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2016, 11:41:48 AM »
I am glad you could get the device working with HUI preset.

But from the MIDI specification, I see that extending can be problematic. In the "H Mode", I do not see messages for Faders 9-12 (nor "Touch" from these faders). Can you check either they in fact transmit something ? Open AZCtrl preferences and move let say Fader 12. Do you see something is changing in the "Last MIDI Event"? If yes, what exactly do you see?

If my guess is correct, SI-24 imitate HUI device in that mode. And HUI had 8 faders only.

Also SI-24 in comparison with HUI:
1) does not have any display
2) has different (much less) buttons with different layout
3) faders are low resolution (7bit compare to 10bit in HUI)
4) has 5 faders more (4 strips + 1 master), but the same number of encoders (HUI has 4 additional encoders outside the strip section)
5) has Joystick

What I mean is that SI-24 does not "fit" nicely into Mackie schema.

And so I would propose to make completely different SI-24 specific preset, using its 'raw/native' "L5 Mode".

That will definitively take some time for me and for your (for testing, reporting bugs, making suggestions, etc.). And as you can see in HUI thread, people normally loose interest/have not time to bring it to the end. Note that unlike with HUI, I can not test anything without relatively big additional effort (creating complete SI-24 imitation in OSC). So there will be more test/fix cycles then with HUI (I could till some level use TouchDAW for testing). But I am ready to go that way, if you are ready to follow. Up to you to decide.


Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2016, 07:45:52 AM »
sorry for the slow reply... as for getting you into making a preset and lots of work, that would be great, but not necessary.
I move the sliders 9-12 and no activity, like you said. I meant to send you the actual Roland midi PDF instead of the text, reads easier.
I only use the azcontroller and HUI preset in 64 bit Sonar Platinum when producing a large project with lots of VSTi's and tracks, so I have use of the extra memory.
All vocal and mixed stems I use Sonar Platinum 32 bit version and then I use the Sonar-Roland SI-24 driver and everything works,
EQ, all 12 tracks, transport, everything, but alas, they never made a 64 bit Roland SI-24 controller driver. Everything works great with your HUI preset,
just limited to the 8 strips only, but that's OK, I am still joyous for that. It has been a tremendous help.
Thanks again for your great software!
Michayl

Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2016, 07:54:03 AM »
Here's a link to the ROLAND MIDI IMPLEMENTATION.pdf

http://www.rolandus.com/support/by_product/si-24/owners_manuals/7710

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2016, 12:13:15 PM »
I have also found the documentation about Sonar mapping (provided by 32bit original plug-in). It is possible more or less reproduce it.
That is not "lots of work", ~ 1-2 hours. I just want to be sure in case I make some preset,  you will test it and reply with
"that and that work fine, that does not work, that works but not expected way". So, in case you are ready for such tests, I will
prepare the preset, if not... you have some way to use the device. I am no way want force you to spend your time on that  ;)

Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2016, 02:28:24 AM »
OK!!!! That would be so Yahsome! I have seen posts that others still use the controller, but cannot in the 64 bit versions of sonar, I love this controller, its simple, but works very well... and you can get them cheap on ebay, sometimes new in the box... yes, I will test and put it through whatever requirements you need. Thank you, thank you, thank you for this blessing!
Michayl

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2016, 08:37:04 PM »
yes, I will test and put it through whatever requirements you need.
Please do not forget your words  ;)

It tool much longer than 2 hours to prepare everything. I put checks/question to you in italic. So please go throw and confirm/report observations for each such section.

I have prepared the post in final form, to be able split this thread and put the part starting the next post into Presets topic. Notice that later updates/fixes will go as edits into this post.

PS. Based on your first name... we can probably use Russian if that is simpler for you ;)

Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2016, 05:43:20 AM »
THIS IS SO AWESOME!!!! I'm in Texas, 10:30 pm posting time. I will start first thing in the morning and try to report back later in the day,
but tomorrow report for sure. Can't speak Russian, I  would that I could.... thank you again, I know there are many who will be so  excited about this.
I will be in touch asap.
Michayl

Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2016, 06:31:50 PM »
Outstanding work!!!! Everything, except 1 thing works... and in some situations better that the Roland driver.
there is only a few adjustments needed, if possible. OK, here we go

1. ok - actually perfect, very smooth.
2. ok, except when "Recording" in started only the record LED lights up, in the Roland version, both record and play LEDs light up. Not really a problem, but FYI.
3. ok
4. ok
5. ok
6. No. The red Master fader does not respond from within Sonar, or the device.
7. ok
8. ok
9. ok. Note: The Pan in the Roland driver moves in twos, ie: 2-4-6-8-etc. your preset moves in tens, ie: 10-20-30-40-etc.
10. ok
11. ok. Note: Love the added ACT strip!!!!
12. ok, except #3 (Browser) does not close out with "0", you must push "3" again. Note: The Roland driver closes out with "0", ie correctly.

1 final note: when a project is closed out, or exiting Sonar, the faders all drop down to -oo, of off, so to speak, almost like the device zeros out,t
he AZ preset leaves all faders in place from last project open.

The preset is very smooth, all faders move perfectly, no jumping, everything runs great, EQ/Plugin settings, everything.
Very impressed!
Let me know if you need more info, hope I answered everything correctly.
Thank You!
Michayl

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2016, 12:11:47 AM »
2. ok, except when "Recording" in started only the record LED lights up, in the Roland version, both record and play LEDs light up. Not really a problem, but FYI.
Changed.

Quote
6. No. The red Master fader does not respond from within Sonar, or the device.
Strange... Do you have a bus with name "Master" (exact spelling!)

Quote
9. ok. Note: The Pan in the Roland driver moves in twos, ie: 2-4-6-8-etc. your preset moves in tens, ie: 10-20-30-40-etc.
Changed.

Quote
12. ok, except #3 (Browser) does not close out with "0", you must push "3" again. Note: The Roland driver closes out with "0", ie correctly.
Are you using Platinum? For me, if the browser is "docked", "0" is closing it (it is mapped to "Close current tab (in dock)" command. But if it is not docked, it is separate "Browser" window, and so it is not a tab. I have not found other "close" command so far, so I do not know how to fix that.

Quote
1 final note: when a project is closed out, or exiting Sonar, the faders all drop down to -oo, of off, so to speak, almost like the device zeros out,t
he AZ preset leaves all faders in place from last project open.
That is one of general AZ Controller limitations. After first release I have found that Sonar is periodically crashing during startup/closing when AZ Controller is used. I have not found the real reason for that, but my guess was that accessing Sonar when there is no project (or it is loading) can trigger some bug inside Sonar. So when there is no project (which also happens when you close the project), AZ Controller is no longer "working" and so unable to set (reset) the device.

After thinking once more about the problem (that is not the first time people see that as a disadvantage), may be there is a solution... But it will take a while to implement (I will have to rewrite a lot of code, I mean the source code of AZ Controller, not the preset). Sorry, but at the moment I can just put that into my "todo" list.

Thanks for testing!

Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 12:31:43 AM »
Great to hear back... I don't have a bus named Master... will double check that though. 
yes, you are correct, I have the browser undocked, I have found that when it is docked, the cpu usage went up, alot... that was in X3, and yes, I am in Platinum now.
As for the faders closing out, not even worried about it, your fantastic program and preset have gone far beyond what I thought could ever be for me. I am extremely grateful!
Maybe for having the faders go off, I can just make a screen set or something that zeros them out, then just hit that before closing out Sonar.
Thank you again.... do you have a donation link, would like to give something at least, I do non-profit work so money is tight, but this is really worth it.
Michayl

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 08:03:12 PM »
Great to hear back... I don't have a bus named Master... will double check that though.
I can set whatever strip you want.

With zeroing faders, I guess the only approach which can work is creating a project with 12 strips... I have also found some inconsistency in detection of strip changes, please download the latest version (b320), it does not solve the problem completely, so there will be yet another fix later.

We can also add some functionality, for example Shift + something. I have OSC enabled version of SI24 preset (see screenshot) and so I can test the logic.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 08:06:24 PM by azslow3 »

Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2016, 03:18:04 AM »
Normally the red fader just moves the 1st main output in the Sonar mixer (Red Ones), so if we can get that going great, if not, its not really a big deal, don't think I really used it at all anyway, lol.strange thing took place though... I closed out today at the end of production and the faders zero out   :-\ .... hmmmm, might be a fluke, but they did, for zeroing out, I just open a blank project without saving and everything zeros, then close Sonar, pretty cool. The play-rec leds work great, and the pan is correct also, never really used the eq-plugin setting, but finding myself doing it now. very joyous for this blessing, going to post on sonaer forum about the amazing results! Thank you again!
Michayl
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 03:23:18 AM by michaylasaph »

Offline azslow3

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2016, 10:35:32 AM »
I have moved the description/link to the Presets board: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,316.0.html

I have also modified the Master fader to control output.

Thank you for testing the preset!

Offline michaylasaph

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Re: Roland SI-24 Control Surface
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2016, 06:21:05 PM »
Master Fader Works!!!! This preset is PERFECT! Outstanding Work!
very grateful.
Michayl
PS: the OSC version looks very cool!