Author Topic: [AZ, Watercourse, BobF] PreSonus Faderport  (Read 32470 times)

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2015, 11:50:59 AM »
Looking forward to the next round.

So, please download b183. If everything is ok I can put it into the release area. I also plan to reorganize the forum by making new section "Build-in presets" and I put this thread there, please do not  be surprised.

I have updated the first post, but I list the changes here:
* Read/Write also arm/disarm Pan automation
* Output also (try to) change the focus and hide/show Bus Pane (when asked during the preset generation). Works fine in X2, but I have not checked that in SPlat.

I have also added some "goodies":
* Bank buttons has double function. When pressed during Pan operations it changes the resolution for it. Otherwise it switch between normal Pan and "ACT Quick Dial" modes. I like the last one more and more, especially with hi resolution. That provides convenient tuning for any plug-in parameter.
* Loop function also got new functionality as a modifier key. When used with FF/RWD transport buttons, set Loop In/Out points. Pan encoder horizontally Zoom when used with it.

Thanks for testing!

Offline watercourse

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2015, 04:16:35 AM »
Ok, gave it a good workout and results are below:

General Notes:
  - tested using Sonar X3 (32 and 64 bit) and Sonar Platinum (32 bit)

  - For fader Logical control Value, I changed my fader behavior from the default of 'catch' to 'direct'. This works better for me as the fader doesn't have to find the catch location to start changing values.

  - I can't detect a noticeable difference in Panning with the 'Bank' button on. With 'bank' both on and off, I get about 30% movement of the software pan bar per knob twist. Is there some other type of behavior I should be looking for?

Bugs:
  - pressing 'Write' while transport is engaged causes Sonar to crash.  I double-checked with Presonus's stock plugin and it doesn't cause a crash in Sonar under those conditions.

Some suggested/requested Faderport default button functionality (based partially off original Faderport and partially on test use):
  - Have 'Mix' button open and close console view
  - Have 'Proj' button open and close PC window (Ctrl+I)
  - Have 'Trns' button open and close the Multidock

Requested add-on's to current functionality
  - For 'Rewind' and 'Fast Fwd' buttons, have single click move transport to Previous and Next marker positions.  Holding down buttons would perform normal FF and Rewind functions (currently behavior).  Not sure if this is possible.

  - When 'Loop' button is pressed, loop selection defaults to current timeline selection

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2015, 11:29:34 AM »
  - For fader Logical control Value, I changed my fader behavior from the default of 'catch' to 'direct'. This works better for me as the fader doesn't have to find the catch location to start changing values.
I have changed the default to 'direct'. But I am not sure that is a good solution for "Motor Off" case.

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  - I can't detect a noticeable difference in Panning with the 'Bank' button on. With 'bank' both on and off, I get about 30% movement of the software pan bar per knob twist. Is there some other type of behavior I should be looking for?
There should be significant difference... I have no faderport, tested with my MPK Mini. It is like 10 times in "speed". Open overview Tab, select "Resolution" from States. Press (and keep pressed) Bank, do you see "Hi"/"Low" changes? Note, that hi resolution is set in case you use Bank as shift, so when you hold it (reverted back when released, independent from Mix/ACT mode).

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Bugs:
  - pressing 'Write' while transport is engaged causes Sonar to crash.  I double-checked with Presonus's stock plugin and it doesn't cause a crash in Sonar under those conditions.
That is serious... Can you be more specific? What you mean by "transport is engaged", Play, Record? What type of the track is selected (MIDI/Audio/any)? Can you reproduce it on 1 track project without plug-ins?

I have tried it so far on X2 32bit and SPlat 64bit, in "Play" and "Rec" mode. It worked as expected. While stock plug-in does that exactly the same way, it can do this with a bit different timing or in another sequence (for example, arming pan first and volume next, doing that not in "one go", etc). But I should be able to reproduce it to change something.

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Some suggested/requested Faderport default button functionality (based partially off original Faderport and partially on test use):
  - Have 'Mix' button open and close console view
Do you know a key combination which has the same effect? I have found only "View Console", but it does not close it.

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  - Have 'Proj' button open and close PC window (Ctrl+I)
Done

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  - Have 'Trns' button open and close the Multidock
Done.

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Requested add-on's to current functionality
  - For 'Rewind' and 'Fast Fwd' buttons, have single click move transport to Previous and Next marker positions.  Holding down buttons would perform normal FF and Rewind functions (currently behavior).  Not sure if this is possible.
Prev/Next marker are on "Shift+Punch/User" (as indicated on Faderport). I am not supporting fancy timing differences ("short" press/hold/double click) since I think that is too error prone to be "stage safe".

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  - When 'Loop' button is pressed, loop selection defaults to current timeline selection
It is enabling/disabling loop. I have modified it to catch current selection when switching to On. But you still need to press it twice to move currently looped region to selection (the first time it will turn Loop off, next time On with new region).

Test version with changes is uploaded.

Offline watercourse

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2015, 05:42:24 PM »
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I have changed the default to 'direct'. But I am not sure that is a good solution for "Motor Off" case.

For "Motor Off", the PreSonus plugin disables the fader altogether (will not change track volume) so this shouldn't be a problem for the general user.

Quote
There should be significant difference... I have no faderport, tested with my MPK Mini. It is like 10 times in "speed". Open overview Tab, select "Resolution" from States. Press (and keep pressed) Bank, do you see "Hi"/"Low" changes? Note, that hi resolution is set in case you use Bank as shift, so when you hold it (reverted back when released, independent from Mix/ACT mode).

Ok, I didn't realize I needed to hold down 'Bank' while turning the pan.  I tested again and the default pan behavior is "faster" and the 'Bank' shifted behavior is "slower".
Quote

Bugs:
That is serious... Can you be more specific? What you mean by "transport is engaged", Play, Record? What type of the track is selected (MIDI/Audio/any)? Can you reproduce it on 1 track project without plug-ins?

It happens on an audio track when the transport is in Play.  I tested with a single audio track project with recorded audio and the bug didn't appear.  It is showing up on two ongoing projects (one at mixing stage, one tracking) that contain multiple tracks and buses.  It's likely a Sonar or audio plugin issue--it's just strange that it's not happening with the original Faderport plugin. I'm currently investigating it further and will get back to you as soon as I can pin down the specific conditions.

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Do you know a key combination which has the same effect? I have found only "View Console", but it does not close it.

I don't. I assumed you did ;).  That explains why the original plugin only opened the Console view and never closed it.  I'm finding I can use 'Mix' to open the Console-specific view in the Multidock and then 'Trns' to close the Multidock altogether.  I can also use 'Trns' to open the last Multidock plugin used (say Melodyne).  I don't find having both buttons necessarily redundant.

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Prev/Next marker are on "Shift+Punch/User" (as indicated on Faderport). I am not supporting fancy timing differences ("short" press/hold/double click) since I think that is too error prone to be "stage safe".
Understood.  That makes sense.

I think everything looks great--nothing more to add or change feature-wise.  I'm going to continue troubleshooting the crash issue and will let you know as soon as I have useful info.

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2015, 06:27:51 PM »
I think everything looks great--nothing more to add or change feature-wise.  I'm going to continue troubleshooting the crash issue and will let you know as soon as I have useful info.
Thanks. I have potential "time bomb" in the plug-in since I do not use thread-safe interlocks. There is no evidence that is a problem, I have assumed SONAR does not create such situations (trigger "refresh" and "MIDI Input" at the same time). But in heavy project, who knows. In practice if that happens with that particular preset/button reaction, I do not see what can crash in the code. Also I would expect some other crashes, especially during fader movements. It can be that SONAR itself is not thread-safe in hope plug-in locks everything. But stable crash, in that particular operation (and only in it), really strange...

To understand the difference between stock plug-in and my preset: what exactly is "armed" by stock "Write" button? Just "volume"+"pan" or everything? "w" button in SONAR is "diagonal half red" in the first case and "complete red" in the second.

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I don't. I assumed you did  ;)
There are parts of API which I have not adopted. And there are parts which I have implemented but I do not know all possible variations. "Command" Action is a good example. SONAR declare some "commands" and how they are named and what they do is up to SONAR. There is a set of "undocumented" commands (you see them with strange capital names and "*" at the beginning), most of them do not work, but some of them do (and produce reaction you can not get other way, I have learned that looking into MCU source code). I have not tested all of them.

Offline watercourse

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2015, 04:05:25 AM »
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To understand the difference between stock plug-in and my preset: what exactly is "armed" by stock "Write" button? Just "volume"+"pan" or everything? "w" button in SONAR is "diagonal half red" in the first case and "complete red" in the second.

Good point.  I had noticed before that the stock plugin uses the "complete red" vs. AZ's "diagonal half red".  I tried changing 'Select Strip Parameter' to 'All' for the 'Write' button.  The crashes stopped and the plugin works perfectly now!  I don't think the plugin was the cause of the problem--I think the different automation method just revealed some other issue that was already lurking.

I think we're good to go.  Let me know if there's any other testing you'd like me to do.  If it's ok with you, I was planning to put up a glowing post about AZ Controller on the Sonar forum with details on the Faderport improvements.  Or, if you have a specific rollout plan, let me know and I'll be happy to help out in any way I can.

There are not enough Thank You's in "Thank You".

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2015, 10:14:37 AM »
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To understand the difference between stock plug-in and my preset: what exactly is "armed" by stock "Write" button? Just "volume"+"pan" or everything? "w" button in SONAR is "diagonal half red" in the first case and "complete red" in the second.

Good point.  I had noticed before that the stock plugin uses the "complete red" vs. AZ's "diagonal half red".  I tried changing 'Select Strip Parameter' to 'All' for the 'Write' button.  The crashes stopped and the plugin works perfectly now!  I don't think the plugin was the cause of the problem--I think the different automation method just revealed some other issue that was already lurking.
I have uploaded modified version. I am glad you have found how to modify the preset yourself!

Most probable reason for the crash: I ask to automate 2 parameters in one go. I do not think any other plug-in ever tried to do the same. And SONAR was confused under some conditions. "Full red" is done just in one call, that action can be activated by many plug-ins and SONAR itself. So it is stable.

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I think we're good to go.  Let me know if there's any other testing you'd like me to do.  If it's ok with you, I was planning to put up a glowing post about AZ Controller on the Sonar forum with details on the Faderport improvements.  Or, if you have a specific rollout plan, let me know and I'll be happy to help out in any way I can.

There are not enough Thank You's in "Thank You".
Thank you! With your help it was possible to create the first full scale working preset for particular device.

I have noted the preset inside my "You can..." endless thread. But dedicated post, not from me and in English (I think you know what I mean  ;) ) can help other to find it. I guess forum members have a feeling that "free" software can not be good, and "Russian free" is dangerous  8)

Offline MarKo

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2015, 02:04:46 PM »
I guess forum members have a feeling that "free" software can not be good, and "Russian free" is dangerous  8)

Oh NO!
i think this genius software is far too good to be free!
if possible i would really like to donate a decent amount.
i know that you must have spent 100´s of hours, i can not "thank you" so much.

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 02:59:26 PM »
I guess forum members have a feeling that "free" software can not be good, and "Russian free" is dangerous  8)

Oh NO!
i think this genius software is far too good to be free!
if possible i would really like to donate a decent amount.
i know that you must have spent 100´s of hours, i can not "thank you" so much.
I plan some targeted donation next month, there will be 1 year since the first release. Not really for direct support of AZ Controller... but I think you understand the idea once I publish it  ;)

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2015, 03:11:41 PM »
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Oh, and in case I didn't mention before, I do have an Alphatrack and would be happy to do the testing for the preset  ;).

You have mentioned that before, so I have done some "researches" already.

It has complete MIDI specification, so we do not need guess what it expects. That was the only good news.

The bad news. Unlike Faderport, I do not see it on the market. I mean it is discontinued and not widely spreader here (may be because of bad score on amazona).

I am busy this and the next weeks. But I let you know when something is ready for tests.

EDIT. Sorry, I have pressed wrong button and modified your post instead of replay... Admin power  :(

Offline watercourse

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 02:05:21 AM »
Ok, my post is almost ready.  I was going to add a link to the main download but it looks like the test version is the only one with the FaderPort preset.  We're you planning to update the main download or keep it in test mode for now?

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2015, 08:49:13 AM »
I think the best way is to link this thread,  http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,163.0.html

I put the version into release section later today, so the instructions are going to be "download the latest release", or "available since v0.3.6 build 185".


Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2015, 07:41:33 PM »
link to Sonar forum post:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/AZ-Controller-has-made-the-FaderPort-awesomeAlphaTrack-is-on-the-way-m3209687.aspx
Nice text! Easy to read and understand, I can not say the same about my own texts when I read them after a while...

Thank you!

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ, Watercourse] PreSonus Faderport
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2015, 05:39:17 PM »
I have updated the preset.

While working with Alphatrack, I have found nice feature it its stock plug-in documentation, "Save/Recall" current strip. So I generalized it as "Save/Recall" current parameter. With that feature it is possible to use "ACT Speed Dial" with more than one encoder (make sense for Alphatrack for example).

While coding, I decide to check one other possibility with API... and I have introduced a bug in my code... which happened to be a FEATURE in Sonar API! So it is possible to get/set currently focused strip type (Bus/Track, does not work with Master for some reason). So, I have modified Faderport preset to take the advantages of new founds: WAI follows focus, even if the focus is moved to/from track/buses and switching focus by "Output" should work better (at least works better in X2).