AZSlow
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MarKo on October 05, 2015, 11:03:19 PM
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Hi Alexey,
I dont want to hijack any of the other threads, so i thought it would be best to start a new one here. And i hope it´s ok to upload it here?
Ok, here is a first test of an editor for the genericpluginparams.xml.
It´s purpose is to make the process of manually editing the XML more comfortable, so i assume you know why and what is happening. In the end it just writes the required ACT-parameters in ascending order (by type) to this node in the XML-file.
Unzip and put SonActEdit.exe anywhere you like, then start it and (without selecting a plugin) you see the ACT-Numbers like S1-S8, B1-B16,...
Selecting a plugin from the combo shows it´s params andc the current assignment. Selecting a param highlights the current assignement, and clicking on other control does assign, right-click to clear. Some other editing commands (shift+click to "fill a row") are available.
Now, the funny part is when you have Az-Controller running!
Yes, you can edit while sonar is running (but need to restart Sonar for changes to take effect). If you open Az-Controller-dialog (you can minimize it, so it does not take space), then SonActEdit can follow current Plugin and Parameter of Sonar-UI ("follow Az-Ctrl"). That means you can directly assign any plugin-param to the surface-control (that´s how it should have been always, IMHO).
There are many more details, but i think you get the main idea..
Copys of the original files are saved with date+time, so there should be no risk. To work reliable, the sonaract.xml is replaced by a 0-byte-file, but also with backup.
If you think this could be useful, i would think of a more generic UI, to fit other surfaces too.
Edit: the latest version can be downloaded here: SonActEdit (http://www.azslow.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=35)
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Thanks for publishing! I am going to test it tomorrow (I am on the way to dreams now...), but when I activate "follow" it say "AZCtrl not found". Do I have to do something special?
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Update. I have tried it under Linux (Wine) with X2. This time it has found AZCtrl and synced with it!
* The workflow is intuitive. I see only one possible enhancement: clicking on the control can do the same as clicking on the parameter. Not important, but since they are drawn...
* If I remember correctly I have it on Windows as well (not really sure, I have to check at home): the control type is not shown correctly in the parameter list (unlike on your screen-short). Is that some special font?
* Save does not work under Wine, I guess that is wine problem (have to check at home). But as I understand you save the whole XML, there can be an option to save one plug-in only to be "Imported" throw Sonar preferences. I have already checked either automatic import is possible throw API (to "apply" on running Sonar), and unfortunately I have not found the way to do this.
Overall I can say that it is ready to be used as it is. Great job!
"Stealing" plug-in/parameter names from AZ Controller window is a hammer :) Searching manually by name can be nightmare for some plug-ins. I hope we can understand why it does not work for me at home (Win 10 x64, SPlat). Let me know what I can test in that respect.
EDIT:
As possible generalization, I only see one more row of top encoders for sliders 9-16. You have already 16 buttons and 24 rotors and I do not think someone is using more than 2 ACT banks of 2x 8 sliders/encoders/buttons.
While smoking (nothing illegal, normal tabak...), your "windows stealing" has triggered possible approach to solve my long standing problem: how to map ACT in terms of Strip/FX/Synth numbers. I remember Cakewalk has claimed they are "accessible" in X seria, so it should be possible to find what is in focus looking at that information. So now its my turn to spend time based on your idea ;)
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From my Windows system:
On save: Runtime error '-21470248...', Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden'
AZCtrl: Not found on X3 and SPlat
No control type icons in the parameter list.
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Thanks for the feedback!
I´m glad that it worked at least on one of your systems, so you could see the "hammer" :)
This is really the way ACT should always have been!
And i´ve seen coming that there could be problems with finding Az-window and path names - that has to be definable (currently defaults to %APPDATA%\Cakewalk\ACT Data) - there is just a config-dialog and settings-file missing (an error-handler is missing too :o). Also logging for not-found Az-Window is built in, but not written to file.
Appreciate also your other comments, but i had quite a hard day at work (exhibition), so i´ll reply more in detail tomorrow.
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HI:)
downloaded it and testing it tomorrow!!
thanks a lot;)
Bassman.
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Hi Alexey,
here is a slightly modified version with logging.
Please try on your systems and tell me if it finds Az-Controller.
Possible reasons why it´s not working:
- Sonar and SonActEdit run at different privilege levels ("as admin")
- the window structure in SPlat is different (i assume Az-Controller to be top-level, as it is in X3)
- the window-classname or title is different
i´m sure you have a tool like Spy++ or similar to check window properties and hierarchy.
If you could check this with Splat and show me the difference?
Is that some special font?
the font is Segoe UI, which is standard since Win7, but may not be installed on XP or wine.
It was the quickest solution with this symbols - otherwise i have to use a real multicolumn-listview with icons, and i wanted to avoid dependencies. Or could it be related to regional settings - is your windows russian?
workflow is intuitive. I see only one possible enhancement: clicking on the control can do the same as clicking on the parameter. Not important, but since they are drawn...
i know, i´d like that too - but they are not really drawn, it´s just a background-image, so i would need separate transparent controls or a click-map, and there was no time for that.
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It is no longer crashing, and the errors (from your log file):
23:40:27 AZ main window not found
23:46:40 Error -2147024893 in frmMain2.cmdSave_Click; Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden.
So, no sync and no save. Interesting that the log file is just near the xml file it can not find... but stop, how it can show my plug-ins in case the file is not found?
I run sonar and your tool under the same user. I do not have Spy++ (I am not developing under windows, no tools there). Took WinSpy++ and it shows there is a window with title "AZ Controller - 1". Or you search by some class id?
I use Windows 10, German version and also German localization (at the moment). Sonar speaks English.
I see Segoe UI font in the Windows folder, still get just "squads" instead of symbols.
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Hi:)
"Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden"
Hat sich mit der 2. Version erübrigt, geht jetzt!
"AZ window not found" ist auch bei mir. German Win 10, German Sonar Platinum....
Teste jetzt mal ohne Platinum ein paar Plugs, muss erst kucken, ob ich noch welche hab, die Meisten hab ich schon eingestellt!
Merci,
Heinz.
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I have modified how the window is found, please try again.
But i have no clue about "Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden."
Obviously the path is correct because it can read the file, and also logging works in this path...
Perhaps Platinum locks the file (although i would expect a different error then).
Can you try to close Sonar - and save afterwards?
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I remember Cakewalk has claimed they are "accessible" in X seria, so it should be possible to find what is in focus looking at that information. So now its my turn to spend time based on your idea ;)
This could be helpful: https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=1&help=Views.02.html (https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=1&help=Views.02.html) AccessibilityMode at bottom of page. With value=3 you see the info that you get.
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I have modified how the window is found, please try again.
But i have no clue about "Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden."
Obviously the path is correct because it can read the file, and also logging works in this path...
Perhaps Platinum locks the file (although i would expect a different error then).
Can you try to close Sonar - and save afterwards?
Everything the same... AZ Ctrl not found, Pfad not found :(
Tried without Sonar, with reinitialized XML file (only one plug-in). It is displayed, but it can not be saved.
I remember Cakewalk has claimed they are "accessible" in X seria, so it should be possible to find what is in focus looking at that information. So now its my turn to spend time based on your idea ;)
This could be helpful: https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=1&help=Views.02.html (https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=1&help=Views.02.html) AccessibilityMode at bottom of page. With value=3 you see the info that you get.
Thanks for the link, I will have a look. But value=3 means some extra window and registry editing for potential "users"... I prefer to avoid that if possible.
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Everything the same... AZ Ctrl not found, Pfad not found :(
this is not nice. But the latest version writes more logging, could you send it?
And could you make a screenshot with Winspy, showing your AZ-dialog?
perhaps i can see the problem there.
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But value=3 means some extra window and registry editing for potential "users"
3 is just to see the window - i use 2, which is invisible.
And the Reg-key could be set on installation (screenreaders do that also, and i´ve never seen a negative effect).
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I am sorry, did clean re-download and it looks like I have tested old version before...
The latest can find AZCtrl!
But still can not save:
19:47:14 ----- SonActEdit_main ----- 09.10.2015
19:47:14 LoadActXML: C:\Users\Alexey\AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\ACT Data\genericpluginparams.xml
19:47:14 no parseErrors
19:47:14 show
19:47:14 ListEffects
19:47:19 AZ main hWnd: 20500
19:47:19 ACT-map: 1054A
19:47:19 ACT-param: 1054E
19:48:06 backup, copy
19:48:06 DOM save
19:48:06 Error -2147024893 in frmMain.cmdSave_Click; Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden.
19:48:06 reload ActXML
19:48:06 LoadActXML: C:\Users\Alexey\AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\ACT Data\genericpluginparams.xml
19:48:06 no parseErrors
19:48:06 ListEffects
19:48:06 ListEffects
Also still undefined characters as control types.
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Fine, must be different classnames on your systems, but now i check for title only.
And i hope saving will work now too - sorry for a VERY bad mistake >:(
I did not change anything about the symbols, but i´ll look into that now.
Edit: re-uploaded with small change for font.charset
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Great! It completely functional now. Sync works and saving works.
One small font fix till perfection.... ;)
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Great that it´s now working for you too!
One small font fix till perfection
So there was no change with last version?
@Heinz: do you see the symbols in the list for control-types?
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Great that it´s now working for you too!
One small font fix till perfection
So there was no change with last version?
No :(
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Try this version:
because of dependencies it´s too big for uploading here.
Changed to listview with icons.
EDIT: Link removed, because uploading now possible (thanks!)
download the latest version here: SonActEdit (http://www.azslow.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=35)
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Yes, this one show control types. Thanks!
PS. I have modified the forum configuration so you (I mean "Power user" ;) ) can upload files into the "Downloads/Other". You can then make a link in the post to the section (as I do inside "About") or directly to the file. I do not want allow exe/zip in general attachments and there is no way to specify per user group attachments rules. That is why I use separate Downloads add-on.
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Thank you for allowing uploading to Download-section.
i already moved it there and removed all previous versions from attachements.
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I see I forgot to set auto-approval for your downloads... it should work now.
Also direct link can be used (easy for users), like ACT Editor (http://www.azslow.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=35)
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I have added a link to this thread from documentation and some additional information: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,13.msg107.html#msg107
Comments about current Editor:
Sonar is periodically putting garbage into parameter names. It looks like that does not influence sonar operations, but the editor can not load the file then (with xml parser error). I do not have an example (I have solved the problem with my xml in-between), but may be you load the file as UTF8. I guess Sonar understand and generate at most 8859-1, so some not valid for UTF codes can appear.
Wishes:
1) an option to remove plug-in information from the file. It is easy by ACT Learn to make incorrect mapping with duplicated parameter ids and/or removed parameters. It is not easy to restore it by ACT Learn. And till that is done, the editor does not "see" missed parameters or behave strange in case of id duplication. Removing relevant section and letting Sonar recreate it solve that problem.
2) an option to save one plug-in/specified group of plug-ins/all changed plug-ins in separate XML file. I have tested that it works with "ACT XML import" in Sonar than. First, it is possible to test changes without restarting Sonar (by importing the file). And it is possible to distribute the resulting XML (I have already use that for FX Chain to answer question in official forum). Good BCR2000 mapping can be not so good on other devices, but I think the Editor is good for generic controllers too
3) save "Follow AZCtrl" and "Always on top" settings to avoid setting them after every restart.
3) (old, but I mention that since that is the only wish left) another row for sliders 9-16.
Another wish I have implemented inside AZ Controller: option to make XML file text editor friendly. I had to do this to understand why the Editor can not load the file (it was logging problem in line "0", since the whole file was one line only...).
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I have added a link to this thread from documentation and some additional information
Thanks for linking and also your additional infos - you saved me some work ;)
Sonar is periodically putting garbage into parameter names.
i have never seen that - is this only with Platinum?
editor can not load the file then (with xml parser error). I do not have an example (I have solved the problem with my xml in-between), but may be you load the file as UTF8. I guess Sonar understand and generate at most 8859-1, so some not valid for UTF codes can appear.
if this happens again, please send me example XML.
i have to read it as UTF8, because it declares itself as such: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
i´m using MSXML-lib, which does this automatically. Maybe it fails if content does not match the encoding, but i´ve never seen this before.
1) an option to remove plug-in information from the file.
this is already done for next version.
The editor tries to avoid errors with removed params. if it finds params which are currently not assigned, they get assigned after the last used slider. And because also empty places are not valid in generic.xml (i´ve tried everything i could think of), i´ve included the "check" (which is also done on saving). This ensures that any empty places in the current layout is filled with neighbour-params, so the layout stays the same. Otherwise all following params would get shifted.
And duplicate params are perfectly valid (at least on X3) - that´s what i use all the time. I often use some "dummy" param to fill gaps if i want a specific layout. Let´s say i have an EQ with 4 bands, but my BCR has 8 columns. To get the layout similar to PlugIN-UI, i have to fill the 4 right columns with these dummy params.
save "Follow AZCtrl" and "Always on top" settings
will be in next version
another row for sliders 9-16.
i´ve been experimenting with a more generic UI, but have to do i little bit more.
make XML file text editor friendly
i know - it´s just a stylesheet missing.
I use notepad++ (not only for XML) - it´s just one command to get XML "pretty-print".
thanks for your feedback!
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PS: if you are still missing my message on OF - i have reasons.
First, i still have not finished a good description.
The second you could guess if you look at the last pic here: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,237.msg1082.html#new (http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,237.msg1082.html#new)
In short: i think it works best, if you can really see this all in full action.
So i´ve started trying videos, but that´s not so easy as it seems and will take some additional time, but i think it´s worth.
PPS: it happend now the third time that the forum crashed and www.azslow.com was not reachable at all.
i´m saving my text now separately because i lost already written messages while clicking on "Preview" or "post".
maybe i wrote too much ;)
i guess this is somewhere hosted - or do you know more about this?
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PPS: it happend now the third time that the forum crashed and www.azslow.com was not reachable at all.
i´m saving my text now separately because i lost already written messages while clicking on "Preview" or "post".
maybe i wrote too much ;)
i guess this is somewhere hosted - or do you know more about this?
I have not seen any problems since long time, and I do not see any errors in logs.
The site is hosted on supported German service, please let me know which error you get the next time it happens. Or the site was just get "not reachable"? They are friendly (well... then have to be, I pay for that ;) ). I am not a big company and I do not rent dedicated host, so I think several minutes of downtime per month can be tolerated, but not more.
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let me know which error you get
no error at all, it just stays at "fetching preview" and nothing happens for minutes.
if i then try to refresh, go back,... the text is lost and sometimes the whole domain keeps unreachable for some time (checked that from smartphone too). But that intermediate message (fetching...) says that it has been transferred - but it never returns.
Edit:
after rethinking: maybe just some general provider/inet errors between us...
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I have added a link to this thread from documentation and some additional information
Thanks for linking and also your additional infos - you saved me some work ;)
Documentation part is the last thing anyone want to do... I know ;)
Sonar is periodically putting garbage into parameter names.
i have never seen that - is this only with Platinum?
No, that is plug-in dependent. Some old (included into Sonar) produce garbage in parameter values and names. I had to put some protection against that into Text Action, that is how I hit that initially.
editor can not load the file then (with xml parser error). I do not have an example (I have solved the problem with my xml in-between), but may be you load the file as UTF8. I guess Sonar understand and generate at most 8859-1, so some not valid for UTF codes can appear.
if this happens again, please send me example XML.
i have to read it as UTF8, because it declares itself as such: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
i´m using MSXML-lib, which does this automatically. Maybe it fails if content does not match the encoding, but i´ve never seen this before.
That has happened after "MIDI learn" of one FX Chain templates. Sonar writes that garbage "as is", but it looks like it can load it then.
1) an option to remove plug-in information from the file.
this is already done for next version.
The editor tries to avoid errors with removed params. if it finds params which are currently not assigned, they get assigned after the last used slider.
I have got the problem with test FX Chain. I have assigned the same parameter to different knobs and then have "ACT Learned" them. Instead of putting "id=5 name=Pxx" and "id=6 name=Pxx", sonar has created both records with "id=5" and even when I have assigned that parameter to button control, it is still used "id=5". I guess that is the case when people report "ACT Learn does not work with XYZ", because it really looks like you can not get rid of it with ACT learn. I will let you know in case I reproduce that.
make XML file text editor friendly
i know - it´s just a stylesheet missing.
I use notepad++ (not only for XML) - it´s just one command to get XML "pretty-print".
As I have mentioned, I have done that inside AZ Controller (I also filter not printable characters there). It was faster for me to implement simple alignment then find some editor which does that (or remember how to ask emacs to do that...). But then I have decided to practice file operations in Windows API (AZ Controller is not reading/writing anything so far). And then I have noticed I can just compile it with AZ Controller by adding 2 lines to call it from "Tweak..." and so I did :D
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i´m not sure if i understand...
I have assigned the same parameter to different knobs and then have "ACT Learned" them.
you did this with my editor? and afterwards ACT-learned? that makes no sense to me.
I´m using editor as replacement for ACT-learning (because that´s so buggy).
Mixing editor and ACT-learning will likely produce strange results - is this what you are saying?
And then I have noticed I can just compile it with AZ Controller by adding 2 lines to call it from "Tweak..." and so I did :D
sorry, but i really can´t guess what you mean :(
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i´m not sure if i understand...
I have assigned the same parameter to different knobs and then have "ACT Learned" them.
you did this with my editor? and afterwards ACT-learned? that makes no sense to me.
I´m using editor as replacement for ACT-learning (because that´s so buggy).
Mixing editor and ACT-learning will likely produce strange results - is this what you are saying?
No! I do not think someone will return to "ACT Learning" after installation of your Editor.
What I mean is that is possible that current configuration for some plug-in, messed by ACT Learn inside Sonar, is garbage. "ACT Learn" can not fix it. Your editor does not see parameters correctly and so can not fix it either. So, the only way to proceed is clear the section, let Sonar reinitialize it and then use the editor to do correct mapping.
I remember your could not assign to buttons if there was no buttons assigned yet. I could! See my old instruction. I guess the reason was "very special bugged" second XML file. For me, it looks like while initially accepting the same IDs and Names for different controls, Sonar sometimes mix all that in a bad way during "ACT Learning" by forgetting name duplicated parameters, ignoring them, writing garbage to names or incorrectly replacing IDs. Once that happened, there is "no way out".
And then I have noticed I can just compile it with AZ Controller by adding 2 lines to call it from "Tweak..." and so I did :D
sorry, but i really can´t guess what you mean :(
I have an option in the latest version, under "Tweak current configuration..." which format that XML.
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Ok, i got i now!
First i thought that the editor made errors.
Of course i will implement this "repair" for broken ACT-plugins too.
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Hi MarKo,
I have been trying out your ACT editor and like it very much. I have only found one problem, but for me it is kind of a big one. The "follow Azctrl" does not always sync to the correct plug-in if there are multiple plug-ins with the same name. I have three different versions of a plug-in named "Panipulator" by Boz Digital Labs (a VST2 version, a VST3 version and a ProChannel version). Each of these have different CLSIDs and different parameters exposed to ACT (the Prochannel version has an "Enable" parameter that the other two do not have and the VST3 version has a "Bypass" parameter that the other two don't have.) When I open the VST2 version in SONAR, the SonActEdit editor syncs to the Prochannel version, not the VST2 version I want to modify.
I am guessing that the editor is matching only to the name of the plug-in and not the CLSID. So to edit these correctly, I cannot use "follow Azctrl". But now I have a different difficulty because it doesn't seem like the editor loads the Plugin selection drop-down list in the order that the plugins appear in the genericpluginparams.xml file. For instance, the order of the Panipulator plugin definitions in my genericpluginparams.xml file is:
1) VST2 version
2) VST3 version (with the additional "Bypass" parameter)
3) ProChannel version (with the additional "Enable" parameter)
but the order of the plugins in the editor's pick list is:
1) Prochannel version
2) VST3 version
3) VST2 version
It is easy to select the right one of these in the editor (with the help of Azctrl's ACT map) since they all have different parameter sets, but I'm afraid it might be much more difficult to distinguish between different plugin versions if they had identical parameter sets.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know in case this is a bug and not my "user error". Lol.
Kind regards,
Don
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Dear Don,
There are limitations set by Sonar Control Surface API. AZCtrl has no way to get CLSID. Sonar is exposing just a name. It is also not possible to get "real" parameters of the plug-in since there is no mapping between the ACT context (what you modify with the Editor) and plug-in position in terms of stip/FX number.
But let me propose a workaround. You can rename plug-ins. The mapping within Sonar is CLSID based, so that should not break existing projects.
From Sonar "Utilities" menu select "Cakewalk Plug-in Manager". Select "VST Audio Effects" and the plug-in in question. Press "Plug-in Properties" button (in "VST Configuration" section under the list). Edit the name and press "Ok". You need restart Sonar to see the change.
Unfortunately XML will not be automatically modified, so the Editor still will see unchanged names. So the next step will be changing the name in XML manually. But once that is done, everything should work fine.
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Fantastic! Thanks, Alexey.
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Hi Don,
Sorry for the late answer, but due to much other work i have not so much time currently.
It seems Alexey has already answered your question.
What surface are you using?
I was thinking about making the editor a bit more generic for other devices, but then i had not enough time anymore. Maybe this gets better around the new year...
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Hi MarKo,
Thank you for the reply. I know very well what it is like to have much other work too!
I am using a BCR2000 (with your excellent beta8 preset) and a Frontier Designs Alphatrack, both controlled by the latest version of AZ Controller. I plan to use only the BCR2000 for ACT control of plugins.
I decided not to rename my plugins as Alexey suggested because it is still easy to use the editor without "follow AZctrl" to set up the mapping for the plugins that have the same name, and the renaming of the plugins is undone whenever the plugin inventory is Reset from the Plugin Manager (and I'm lazy and don't want to do the renaming again if I ever need to do the reset. ;D) I have finished mapping all of the plugins that I actually still use. Of course, I have many others that I have collected over the years that rarely get used anymore. Maybe I will set them up someday. Your editor was a great help and I am so happy to never use ACT Learn anymore!
Kind regards,
Don
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Hi Marko,
I'm a Sonar user and was pointed to ACT Editor by Alexey, who btw has helped me tremendously. I must say ACT Editor saved Cakewalk ACT, as I basically abandoned it a couple years back when I was looking at this. It works for me so far but I do need to do additional manual editing of the .xml file when I need more than 8 sliders.
My question is, is it possible to have 16 sliders? Graphic of controllers or GUI is not important to me but perhaps a quick and dirty 8 more data boxes to map slider.
Again I really do appreciated your work.
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Hi micv,
I always thought about making a bit more generic version of this editor.
We´ll see if i can finish this now...
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Hi all,
finally i made a first version of a more generic ACT-Editor.
Look at settings.ini for layout-definitions, 2 examples are included.
Max number of rows/columns is 8, giving a total of 64 controls.
Each row can be either Btn/Slider/Knob.
To access the different settings, click the button with the Sonar-Symbol.
I hope it´s working, not tested very much.
download here: SonActEdit (http://www.azslow.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=35)
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Hi,
the ACT Editor is amazing! Indeed something like this should have been implemented in SONAR years ago :)
The sync with AZ Controller works great as well.
Cheers,
helgenr1