Author Topic: X-touch mini  (Read 13732 times)

Offline azslow3

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 08:01:11 PM »
I am glad you like how it goes  :D

I have added buttons.

Sorry, I have just noticed that I have "messed" with versions, so rings can be bad (or not available at all), I will fix that later (I have to go now).
Should be fixed now (and loop/punch set/go added).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:36:42 PM by azslow3 »

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2017, 05:43:05 PM »
Good evening Alexey,
Finally got a chance to download latest preset. Busy friday night so I didn't get a chance until today.

 I tried to test as much as I could, may have missed an item or 2 so if there is something specific you would like me to check, just let me know

a) Most funtionality seems to work correctly. Rings work.
    Transport works.
    Layer A light stay on when Layer B pressed to indicate mode status of layer A
    Layer B long press toggle display works.

Fader is not controlling bus.

Single strip layer

WAI follows and updates/synced as described

wo/ Ctrl

     Encoder 7 moves focus but does not switch toggle between tracks/bus
     Pressing last encoder toggles to jog by marker but doesn't toggle back to by beat/measure even with shift lit, stays on by measure.
     so maybe it's just reading that it's pressed and not press and turn?
     Buttons work

w/Ctrl works for sends control with exception of 6th encoder button for send3  Pan does not reset to unity
    Buttons work

Mutlistrip mode works as descibed

Plugin layer works with Ctrl

b) strategic question
Pushing Encoder with out turning is possible if careful, I could see a possibility for it happening and making a slight change to a parameter.


Again, thanks for your hel and hard work. Let me know what else you need on my part.  :) 8)

Offline azslow3

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 02:41:50 PM »
I have tried to addressed mentioned by you bugs.

So, since encoder push is not an nothing, I will think how to implement plug-in selection other way. May be with fast controls. But only in case you like how that work for Loop/Puch.

We have unassigned controls (one encoder and buttons) in the Single layer. You have mentioned some shortcuts before, so what should put there?

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2017, 09:57:23 PM »
Hello again,

"Bugs" I had mentioned work now

Fader works as  it should.

Encoder for jogger works when pressed and turned and toggle back to by beat/measure

"<<" and ">>" work as explained, I just need to remamber to toggle autopunch off to set loop points and vice versa

Record and long press record work as expained and with special function feature.

All seems to work as it should. The internal display from AZ Control helps with navigation of layers :)

If we could assign the keyboard "D" for the multidock toggle to a button somewhere and maybe for "I"-inspector , "B" browswer etc.
I'll have to put some thought into some things but the "D" key is definitely one I use alot.

I think you have most of the functions covered and layout makes sense too.
It's a great improvement over what I had achieved or what could be achieved with basic midi presets :) 
I'm getting use to it and will be testing more deeply soon.

Thanks again Alexey

Offline azslow3

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 06:06:49 PM »
The preset is updated, see "Tests".

If you do not like Punch operations, we can think how to do this differently (f.e. work with Punch with Shift pressed and with Loop without Shift).

Other then that, I have implemented everything I have thought to implement. We still have one encoder in Single strip layer, but no more unassigned controls. So if current version works correctly, I will "release" the preset.

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2017, 04:29:55 AM »
Hello Alexey,
It's a bit late here but I've tried to go thru and test, here is observations:

I'm getting use to the Loop/Auto Punch operation so I don't think we need to change that to operate by shift as you asked.

multi dock button (6) works, show/hide Browser button (7) is labeled wrong in AZ Control internal display, it's labeled as undo
undo button ( 8 ) isn't labeled at all but functions as undo

 "<<" and ">>" work as should in both single and multi modes for loop/auto punch

in Plug-in Layer
"<<" and ">>"
FX and ProChannel work as described

Long pressing (>1sec) ">>" switch to Synth Rack or from Synth Rack to FX mode did nothing.
I had TTS inserted on a track and 2 Fx, track in focus and it didn't change anything. Synth Rack didn't open.  Did I do something wrong?
I even tried while focus on different track, nothing changed.

Long press of loop brings up focused Fx plugin GUI

On another subject. I use comping a lot and K button is my friend when auditioning takes :)
Something to show/hide takes lanes?, scroll through takes lanes? is any of that possible?
I'm not sure if there is even any room left for those types of things but was just something I thought of as something I use frequently.
Not a big concern as I can do them as I always have, with keyboard/mouse
As it is, the mini does a lot more than I ever expected. You've really done some "magic" to it!

If there's anything I forgot, let me know.

Thanks again Alexey, I'm truly amazed.  :D

Offline azslow3

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2017, 12:47:32 PM »
Labels for last 2 buttons and Synth switching should be fixed now.

Note that TTS is not the best choice for tests... It is DX plug-in, it has not automatable parameters.

Cakewalk has "forgotten" to give access to any modern Sonar features (by "modern" I mean introduced in last 10 years...). So, there is no take lanes control (track view specific commands are also not available directly). But we can send computer keyboard shortcuts. For that we need some keys.... and we do not have any left. "Long press" for last 3 buttons? Shift+buttons? What you prefer? And which shortcut you want to send?

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2017, 03:32:12 PM »
Well, leave it to me to pick the wrong synth to test  ;D ::)
I will try a couple others. Would Dimension or Rapture work? I have UVI workstation, Aria Player (Garritan PO5) or Sampletank 3 also.
Unfortunate about the track view/take lanes but that's ok, this preset still has a lot of control over many features  8)

If we can try shift/long press (prefer shift) on last 3 buttons
Could we do shift for Browser button to toggle track Inspector ( I computer key)? Maybe long press/shift Undo to redo?
Shift  Multidock button to bring up PRV?  Not sure if that's even possible.
Is it also possible to do combo of Shift+Ctrl to add another function to a button (f.e. Ctrl+Alt+Delete style)? Just curious.

Other than what you have already done (and you've done a lot),  I can't think of much else at the moment. Any idea you have is always welcome.
I will test Synth again, hopefully later tonight and let you know, Thanks Alexey and have a great day!

Offline azslow3

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2017, 06:17:48 PM »
Added 3 actions with shift.

With Ctrl+Shift, technically is possible. But in our "roadmap", Ctrl selects sub-layer, in this case Sends. Shift is just changing the resolution. Changing actions of dedicated for commands 3 buttons  is on the border of logic. But switching sends 3/4 on/off pre/post buttons to command mode with shift I think cross the red line of usability...
I was thinking about making "Shift+Buttons" always do commands (the same, in all modes). But it is easy to "forget" that Mini is "Capslocked" for fine parameter changes and do something unexpected (f.e. undo instead of mute...).

If there is no objections, its time to declare we have the first "release". I will put the information into "Presets" board then.

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2017, 07:15:55 PM »
Sounds good Alexey!
I will try to give a test again tonight or tomorrow night (a little busy tonight so may not get a chance tonight).
Thank you again., you're a man of great knowledge and patience!  :) 8)

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2017, 06:29:36 AM »
Some funny stuff is happening with button lights
When Sonar is first started and preset loaded, Shift light, Crtl and layer A light work as should. When I change strip focus,
shift button only stays lit when pressed, is not staying lit (capslock?)  to indicate whether it is on or off, same for Layer A, Crtl

Layer B light acts as it should but brings back Layer A indication when pressed. ( f.e If Layer A light was out but multi track mode working when Layer B pressed,
Layer A light comes back on, and stays on after return to Layer A from B until Layer A pressed again.) I'm not sure that I explained that well but trying to explain as best I can.

"<< >>" buttons also don't stay lit, they light when first initialize mode (auto punch) but once pressed again don't stay lit
Send buttons act similar but act differently, really quick press brings them on after turning off but slightly longer press doesn't.
 I restarted Sonar a couple times to test if all these things repeated and they did.

undo/redo works, Browser/Inspector work, Muti dock/Prv pulls up multi dock with PRV

"<< >>" For Synth In Plugin mode work, Tried with a few Synths, some allowed more control than others.
It Was hard to tell if some things were working right with out the lights working for feed back.

Ok, so just as I was about to give up, I tried Multi Dock again to check Prv and everything started working correctly?????
I shut Sonar down and tried to repeat what happened again and now it all works as it should???  ???
I swear I'm not crazy (or drinking or anything :o  ) but that's what happened. I'm dumbfounded. It was just weird that the button lights started working again?

It's late  here so I will wait to hear from you, get your thoughts and test more tomorrow night.

Thanks again Alexey.

Offline azslow3

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2017, 11:26:33 AM »
That is very strange.... It can be:
1) glitch with Mini itself
2) glitch with Sonar
3) glitch with MIDI drivers
4) glitch with AZ Controller
5) bug in the preset
6*) some strange MIDI looping...

And from the behavior, it more like (5). I mean LEDs are reactive on the same messages as button sends, so when you "release" a button, it sends "LED OFF" message. But it is sent FROM Mini, to switch off LED it should "bounce" back TO Mini. So, that can only happened if (1), (2), (3) or (4) is the problem.

If you observe that again, please check:
* does that happened on MIDI track pointing to VST with enabled MIDI output?
* is it continue glitching when you load audio only project?

Also I hope that you do not have MIDIOx, Bom translator or software MIDI loopers. Also check you do not have any Windows MIDI outs enabled in Sonar.

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2017, 02:52:30 PM »
I will test again tonight.  I don't have MIDIOx or any of the other stuff you mentioned. I will check the midi track and project with no midi.
One thing I forgot to mention, which may or may not be important, is that mini would trigger  a note to play on the synth I had loaded for test (f.e. press any button, corresponding midi note would sound on synth).  I was more worried about the light situation so didn't pay it much mind, later I was thinking that maybe something with i/o, midi channel, might have something to do with it so maybe it was more important than I thought. The light thing happened before I loaded a synth so that's why I didn't pay much attention to it. Any thoughts?
I'm going to give a more "structured" test tonight, start new project, load just audio and test, then load midi and synth and see what happens.
What should I do about the notes sounding when button on midi pressed? I know I read something somewhere about that, but I can't remember what and where I read it. I will investigate more tonight with that too.

Have a great day!  8)

Offline azslow3

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2017, 05:57:02 PM »
Yes, that is related... I thing the following happens: MINI -> Sonar -> .... Synth with enabled MIDI output (default for all synth supporting that!) -> MINI.
Well, AZ Controller with our preset should BLOCK all incoming from Mini MIDI messages. So you should not get notes on Synth from it.

1) check that in Preferences / MIDI / Control Surfaces, AZ Controller is the only plug-in with input set to MINI. If there is any other plug-in (other instance of AZ Controller, ACT MIDI, Generic surface), the messages will "leak" (Sonar bug...)
2) if you have ever used "Remove control" (direct MIDI learning), that can be a problem (another Sonar bug).

I will think about other places to check, but usually that is (1).

Independent from "MIDI Leaking", check your plug-ins for enabled "MIDI Output". Just try to select an input in any MIDI track in the project, if you see any plug-in name, open its GUI and disable the output (under "VST2"/"VST3" button menu). Having that enabled is looking for troubles, such Synth can "leak" own MIDI into other tracks (which set to Omni).

Even more. Something is sending MIDI back to Mini. So probably you have MIDI track(s) with output set to it. If MIDI track is not assigned to some soft. synth, it is auto-assigned to the first available in the system Midi device. The same happens if the track was assigned to hardware synth and that device was disconnected. The same for removed soft. synth (when not all related tracks was deleted).

Users are asking Cakewalk to finally implement normal "None" as Input and Output and make it default. Also people are asking to remember "disable MIDI output" setting in the plug-in insertion dialog. And fix MIDI leaking from "Remote control...". These "features" are there for many years (yes, in replies Cakewalk declare first two as "features"!)

Offline almeister_65

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Re: X-touch mini
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2017, 08:38:33 PM »
 
Thanks Alexey, I will try to implement these things when testing tonight.
I have never used "remote Control" so that should not be issue.