Author Topic: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset  (Read 13487 times)

Offline azslow3

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[AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« on: July 07, 2015, 11:21:00 PM »
Note:  AZ Controller  v0.4r1b254 or later is required to use this preset

How to use:
  • Install AZ Controller plug-in first (at the moment the latest test version).
  • Insert AZ Controller in the "Control Surfaces" section of SONAR preferences and attach HUI compatible device MIDI Input/Output to it. It is good idea to detach it from other plug-ins, in case you have already used it with sonar.
  • Import attached preset (HUI.spp) using Cakewalk Plug-in Manager (from Utilities menu in Sonar)
  • Open AZ Controller configuration dialog
  • Select HUI preset

The preset defines at the moment:
  • Motorized faders with touch, control Volume
  • Encoders control Pan (ring feedback)
  • Mute/Solo/Rec control corresponding strip function (with LED feedback)
  • Next/Previous Bank

Note: the preset is created and tested with Novation Nocturn under Automap HUI mode and supports only functions exposed by that device/emulation.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 04:18:00 PM by azslow3 »

Offline cnkrc

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 04:57:20 PM »
Good job!

Offline musicrazy

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2016, 08:17:27 AM »
Can you define midi time code and transport controls? :)

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2016, 10:27:35 AM »
Can you define midi time code and transport controls? :)
Transport controls I can try to define but I can not test them, so that will be up to you and I expect feedback in that case (I mean the answer
either it works or not, usual feedback is a silence... and that is not motivating).

But with MTC I do not understand what you mean. Which device do you have?
Sonar has own MTC processing (in Preferences), Control Surfaces API can work with MTC signals but it can not sync (it is called ~13 times per second only).

Offline musicrazy

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2016, 11:55:59 PM »
Hi az. Thank you for your fast reply. Of course i will test it and give you all the feedback. Not only feedback but also the credits for helping sonar music community. It's great to have users like you trying to help others. Hi have a mackie d8b mixer console with os 5.1, so i have a layer with hui control surface on it to control a daw. I use sonar platinum and you know cakewalk doente support mackie hui.i can get mtc time code on console so i have a clock sync on d8b to use the transport controls. The problem is that when i go to hui mode console stops receiving midi time clock. The clock stop to show on lcd. I get out of hui and i have time on lcd again... Maybe hui protocol use mtc on a different way. It would be great if we could have an hui to mackie control interpreter based on your azslow. I can help you with tests if you need. Thankx and congratulations for your work.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 02:42:30 AM by musicrazy »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2016, 11:14:24 AM »
Hi az. Thank you for your fast reply. Of course i will test it and give you all the feedback. Not only feedback but also the credits for helping sonar music community. It's great to have users like you trying to help others. Hi have a mackie d8b mixer console with os 5.1, so i have a layer with hui control surface on it to control a daw. I use sonar platinum and you know cakewalk doente support mackie hui.i can get mtc time code on console so i have a clock sync on d8b to use the transport controls. The problem is that when i go to hui mode console stops receiving midi time clock. The clock stop to show on lcd. I get out of hui and i have time on lcd again... Maybe hui protocol use mtc on a different way. It would be great if we could have an hui to mackie control interpreter based on your azslow. I can help you with tests if you need. Thankx and congratulations for your work.
Ok, i understand now.

Just to mention. From what I know, there are some solutions which make 3x MCU from d8b. That it an "easy" way to use the device in Sonar, as other users do. These are hardware/software solutions and they are not freeware. But compare to the time we both will spend for complete d8b specific HUI coverage, these solutions are not expensive. So please think either you are ready to spend the time for AZ Controller or money for other solutions. I am fine with both variants, but if we start with AZ Ctrl we should bring it at least up to some proved working state. Otherwise I will waste my time, that happens often and I do not like that.

Pro/cons of both variant:
1) other solutions:
- pro: universal (not Sonar specific), ready right now and guarantied to work
- cons: d8b is not exactly 3xMCU so mapping layout is not ideal (I mean DAW "think" it looks different and so the MCU mapping), MackieControl in Sonar has own limitations and it is "fixed" in any case (you can not assign arbitrary complex actions to controls)
2) AZ Ctrl
- pro: strait communication without intermediate layer, arbitrary assignments which can be tuned specifically for d8b and your personal needs (I understand that you can not do initial configuration, but have a look at BCR2000 thread)
- cons: works in Sonar only, can take a while to make functional, unsure about all 24 channels

In case you go AZ Ctrl route:
When not in HUI mode, d8b shows MTC on the time display. In HUI mode it is just a "display", up to the software (AZ Ctrl) to show something there. Can be Sonar Time in different formats, Clock time or even your birthday. I can not use it right now (except for the Birthday :) ), I will have to extend AZCtrl for that. But that will not take long.

Can you describe how d8b is connected to Sonar? On picture it has 24 channels. HUI (one device) support 8. I just want to understand your general connection schema.

AZ Controller v0.5r0b310 or later required (currently test version)
19.03 I attach mod preset with basic transport buttons (FF/Rew, Play, Stop, Rec).
20.03 Time display (MBT format)
21.03 Channel select (on strips), Copy/Cut/Paste, Undo, Jog wheel
22.03 WAI move by 1 channel, MBT is shifted to match HUI labeling, Channel name display fix
23.03 Aux (1-5), Display, VU meters, Save/Loop/Rtz/End/Enter and numeric keys
04.04 VU meters for left/right channels are separated
11.04 VU test control
14.04 VU should be fixed now
28.04 ProChannel EQ mode
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 10:26:48 PM by azslow3 »

Offline musicrazy

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2016, 08:50:40 AM »
Hi AZ. Thank you for your hard work. I will try the new preset tomorrow. I know the pro solution for d8b for turning it into a mcu (3 mcu's) but you loose the audio on the mixer. I want to have both audio mixer and daw control. The mixer has 24 faders for channels but when you use HUI layer you can only use last 8 channels so it's like a mackie HUI unit. It have also bank select, record arming, solo, mute etc... It's all the features of mackie HUI unit. You can count on me for testing.

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2016, 12:52:51 PM »
I have updated the preset in the previous post, I will do this every time I change it (with corresponding changes description).

Time display should somehow work. But please check it really works correctly (it does not in TouchDAW ProTools mode). I mean all digits and dots should be at the same place as by MBT time format in Sonar (we can add SMPTE later).

Please install the latest test version of AZ Controller (you can find it in the Downloads), you should see b302 (or later) in AZCtrl preferences.

So, please carefully check all existing functionality, so far it is:
* Faders. Bidirectional. Is d8b touch sensitive? Automation overwriting should work correctly then. Also check that faders are not "fighting" with you, I mean touch some fader and move the same fader within Sonar. Does hardware fader tries to move?
* Mute/Solo/Record arm. LEDs for them show light correctly
* Bank left/right (without LEDs)
* Encoders for Pan control, with Ring indication
* Transport (FF/REW/STOP/Play/Rec), with correct LED indication
* Time display in MBT format. Note that it is not updated when you FF/Rewind till you stop moving (like in Sonar).

Once you are convinced all that is working, we can move to next controls. It is up to you to specify priority and functionality for controls, please look at "Last MIDI Event" when you press and release (separately) buttons / turn controls. Every digit displayed inclusive "Value" is important. With that information, I will likely produce less mistakes in mapping.

Offline musicrazy

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2016, 10:31:21 PM »
Hi. Arrived Home now from weekend gig. Will test everything tomorrow. D8b is NOT touch sensitive. cheers and thankx. Have a nice Day.

Offline musicrazy

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 06:17:44 PM »
Hi AZ. Testing finished. All the features are working 100% OK. Tested every new feature. maybe next you can add select channel, next channel, and copy past undo cut on the next update. i'm very grateful  for your kind help. thankx.

p.s. forgot someting - jog wheel is also essencial.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 06:22:23 PM by musicrazy »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 10:27:58 PM »
Hi AZ. Testing finished. All the features are working 100% OK. Tested every new feature. maybe next you can add select channel, next channel, and copy past undo cut on the next update. i'm very grateful  for your kind help. thankx.

p.s. forgot someting - jog wheel is also essencial.
Preset updated, so Jog wheel, copy/paste/cut/undo and channel select buttons (with indication) should work now.

"Next channel"... not found, and I do not understand the meaning. As I have mentioned, for every button please write me:
1) the name of d8b (and approximate location so I can find it on picture)
2) what you see in the "Last MIDI Event" when you press it
3) what you want it does, except when obvious

That is a bit work for you, I know. But please understand that without this information I have to:
a) looking at (not very good) picture of d8b find the button
b) try to guess what can it be on HUI
c) find the HUI name is a HUGE table with numbers
d) guess which result should it produce
It happens that with Edit buttons that was easy (only Undo is in different HUI zone). But with most other it is not. I for example have not found "Bank" buttons on the picture...

I put 1 beat movements on Jogger. That can be almost anything but I can not bound it to the zoom nor snap level (I can not get that information from Sonar). May be it is time to think about modifier keys. I mean I see Ctrl/Opt/Etc. They can be used the same way as with computer keyboard, they can modify any other control. AZCtrl has no limitation on that and it is not bound to the "standard" HUI behavior (it does not exists for Sonar in any case). So, we can define "Ctrl+Opt"+Jogger move between Markers if desired. Also any key can be modifier. Some combinations are shown on d8b but we are not bound to them either. The functionality can be state dependent, so any control can do different operations which in Rec/Play/Stop (also Loop, either Track with name "VOX" is current, etc.). I hope you understand what I mean.

Offline musicrazy

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 12:30:23 AM »
I'll send you a reference picture with all the hui functions on d8b. Not all buttons function on hui layer, but you'll understand what it does on picture. Hui was prepared for protools so some functions Dont have direct correspondence on sonar but we can find another needed functions.
The next channel function is similar to bank change bu instead of 8 channels it moves one channel .
 Thank You.
I will get all you need.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 12:50:49 AM by musicrazy »

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2016, 01:16:10 PM »
Thank you for files. That will help. But probably there still will be questions (there is no official HUI docs, just some famous RE pdf. In the Mackie they use ProTools terms, in PDF there are labels from HUI device, so there can be some mismatches).

I have updated the preset, Channel buttons should work now. Also Time should be at correct place. Note that you need b303 version of AZCtrl.

Offline musicrazy

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 04:58:31 PM »
Hi. Will try updated preset today. Maybe you can work on aux buttons now. Can you make the meters show signal? What about channel labels?  ;)

Offline azslow3

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Re: [AZ] Mackie HUI protocol preset
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 05:03:34 PM »
Hi. Will try updated preset today. Maybe you can work on aux buttons now. Can you make the meters show signal? What about channel labels?  ;)
What should aux buttons do for your?
I will try with meters and labels.