BCR-2000 preset, beta

[azslow3]

Hi,

I do not think I develop something this week, but I can answer you question. It is too hot in the middle of the day 

[Stevie]

Thanks Alexey for welcoming me on board, happy to be here

Does your mind ever stop working? The ideas and work arounds you come up with are amazing!
I hope they don't all come to you in your dreams otherwise you will get no rest at all

Which Sonar-version are you using? Could there be a difference?

Martin I am running platinum so that may make a difference

So if you have some suggestions, they are welcome.

One thing that would really help my workflow would be control over horizontal and vertical zoom

Regards

Stevie

[azslow3]

AZ Controller is my hobby project. So, I think/modify/comment it when I am NOT working 

About zoom (for MarKo, that is NOT ready BCR preset): all zooming operations are done as "Commands".
There are many which can/should be mapped on buttons ("Fit whole project", "Fit selection", etc) while other are good for encoders (Zoom In/Out Horizontally/Vertically All tracks/Selected track).

I do not want you spend sleepless night in attempt to understand how to map commands to encoders. So I attach an example with such mapping, one for "normal" knob and another for endless encoder. Both are for horizontal zoom, but I think that you can change yourself.

[MarKo]

Thanks for the Zoom-example, i´ll look into that and try to find a useful layout.
(i´m currently busy with other things too)

@Stevie: if you now know about the possibilities of AZ - do you have an idea for zoom-handling?
i mean which commands/buttons/encoders...
thinking about a separate "zoom-mode" with all zoom-commands (e.g. Shift-ACT?)

[Stevie]

Hi Martin

The main zoom items I use continually are zoom in & out vertical, zoom in and out horizontal, fit all vertical and fit all horizontal

I will have a look this week at Alexey's zoom preset and see if I can get an idea of how it works
for example one endless encoder zoom in and out or one encoder zoom in and another encoder zoom out, this way I can make a better judgement of how we might set it up

I am not sure if we would need another mode for zoom or if we can work it in with what we have got

It would be good to get other peoples ideas as the way I work is not necessarily the only and best way to do it and it may make for a better tool to use

Also please do not feel any pressure from me to get this done I am just grateful for the effort you guys are putting in and hope I can contribute in some way

Regards

Stevie

[MarKo]

So I attach an example with such mapping, one for "normal" knob and another for endless encoder.

Yesterday i had a quick look at ZoomExample, but i´m not sure if it´s behaviour is as expected.
It does zoom out for controllers <64 and zoom in >64.
but when i zoom out one direction (e.g. left until 50), and then want to zoom in, i have the values coming up from 50 to 64, which further zoom out - which is the wrong direction. It does correctly not before reaching 64.
Maybe it was plannend for some other midi-messages (endless?), but the BCR-preset sends normal Controller-values.
I could change it to 2 Controls, so that one does zoom in, the other out - that works, but i´m not sure if there is a better way...

[azslow3]

That is why I have included 2 controls! One is "Endless", other is for normal "Knob". Have you tried "Knob" one ? It uses different option for state mapping from value, called "Step". The same option exists also for "Value" (just in case you want to try), together with "Instant" and "Direct" it is for normal knobs.

[MarKo]

Of course i´ve seen and tried both controls, but there was no difference in behaviour.
I have to check it again, but this will be tomorrow.

[azslow3]

Oh sorry, my fault... I forgot to re-export final version before attaching the file 

I have exported the version you could see, have decided to test it with controller, have observed exactly what you write and have modified it. And so I was surprised it does not work for you.

I have updated now as replacement for the original attachment, so no one try to use buggy one.

[MarKo]

Thanks, the corrected version works.

[MarKo]

Now i had a bit time to proceed with my preset.
The Zoomexample was ok, but it still had this "dead range" when changing direction (then you had to reach 64 before it worked).
So i had the idea of sending values back to the BCR.
Turning left does zoom out and sends Ctrl 65 back, and turning right does zoom in and sends Ctrl 64 back.
_InOut with just 2 Values, so _InOut from StepValue always works directly, regardless which direction and there is no dead range.

But trying something more, i found that _InOut (with 2 states) from Ribbon-change works even better!
There´s no need for above workaround, plus the Led-ring shows a useful value. The only limitation is the range of 127 values, while the above solution works really endless.
But 127 is much more then needed for zooming, even for shuttle this is enough, so i prefer this one now.
What do you think?

[azslow3]

I do not have BCR, but from this and your other thread, I understand that in hardware the encoders are endless. But they send 1-127 range and also "set" current value to specified. In this case, Ribbon with value sending it the way to go.

But is it possible to switch BCR into "native" mode, where it is just send hardware +-1 directly? That can solve many problems, inclusive metering/volume one.

[MarKo]

Yes, the BCR encoders are endless, but are currently setup to send normal controllers.
They can be programmed for other modes too, and i tried a mode called "inc/dec", but with this i got no midi input at all, so i stayed with "absolute". But perhaps i did something wrong, i´ll have to check again.
So you mean such a mode would be generally be better? does it work for all other scenarios too (PC, ACT,...)?
Then i´ll have to find the correct mode for the BCR. Reprogramming and transferring the preset is not done so fast, so i can not just quickly try all modes through. Could you guess from the screenshot?

[azslow3]

Yes, the BCR encoders are endless, but are currently setup to send normal controllers.
They can be programmed for other modes too, and i tried a mode called "inc/dec", but with this i got no midi input at all, so i stayed with "absolute". But perhaps i did something wrong, i´ll have to check again.
So you mean such a mode would be generally be better? does it work for all other scenarios too (PC, ACT,...)?

If there is an endless encoder, it is better to use it as endless encoder! Everything else is "compatibility", implementer in the BCR firmware. It can be simpler to dial with that at the beginning, but you get such "troubles" as with level/monitor.
AZ Controller is able to process native signals, for all operations. You just has to set "Value" mode to "Endless" (from "Direct") and adjust sensitivity to your taste. You can also define "Shift+Encoder" more sensitive (Fine) then "normal" (coarse).   

Then i´ll have to find the correct mode for the BCR. Reprogramming and transferring the preset is not done so fast, so i can not just quickly try all modes through. Could you guess from the screenshot?

My guess is that any from first 3 "Relative" will work for you (other "Relative" are also supported, inclusive "Inc/Dec", but you do not want them. The explanation for that is going to be a bit long, but if you are interested let me know).
It is hard to guess what is what, so it is better to try all 3 and find which one produce the following result in the "Last MIDI event":
* slow turning right produce value 128, fast turning produce 128/256/384/... depending on speed. It can be that in one mode it produce 128 or 0 independent from the speed (my guess in "sign in MS bit"). It can be that there is no such mode, "second best" is when it produce 128 independent from the speed
* slow turning left produce value 16256, fast turning some another "big" values.

In can be that the result is "reversed", so turning left produce "128". Also not a problem ("Alternative endless encoders" in the Options tab).

[MarKo]

If there is an endless encoder, it is better to use it as endless encoder!

ok, i understand that (now).

My guess is that any from first 3 "Relative" will work for you

the first one gave strange results, but it seems as "Relative (sign in MS-bit)" works.
Initially i had no idea about the different messages. And the BCR can be programmed to send about anything.
But it´s quite some work, i´ve seen now that i can adjust different messages for 4 speed-levels and set values for each.
i´ve got the principle working for 1 control with 2 speed-levels, so i think this is the way.
Maybe it should be noted somewhere, which messages have their advantages.

The explanation for that is going to be a bit long, but if you are interested let me know

i´m interested, but don´t waste too much time - a few words would be nice.